2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by FlamesLitSquad

Big "IF" here - curious for opinions.

Say the Flames win the lottery (and lose to the Jets ) do you:


a) Spend Futures and go all in with JH and Hall next year?
b) Take a JH trade package (Frost or Zacha / Picks from above) and extend the window.
c) Stay with the current plan (minor free agent signings / movement) with the big prospect boost
d) FIRE SALE and mini rebuild to be amazing on 3-4 years (Keep Lindholm/Chucky/Andy/Vali sell Mony/Johnny and anyone over 25?)
e) Trade down for multiple top picks (C / D)

Here's what I do:
first I trade down from one (I know, I know) but we have built from the wings in for too long and it hasn't worked. So I trade down with LA and pick up either a couple extra picks or a prospect like Kaliyev if possible. Or if the rumours are true that LA wants stutzle I trade down to three and pick up Ottawa's late first. Whatever you can get and still ensure you get Quinton Byfield.

Next I trade Gaudreau for really any of the packages discussed here but for the sake of the post and keep it consistent with my previous posts lets say its to Buffalo for Cozens and Reinhart

Third, I sign Hall.

Now we are going into the draft with Byfield as a lock, One of the top young centre prospects the league, our own first and possibly a NYI first or a handful of extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd from moving down.


Now our prospect pool is completely re vamped and we still have a competitive team that will only get better over the following few seasons.

By next year we could be seeing something like:
Hall - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Reinhart
Bennett - Byfield - Mangiapane
Lucic - Dube/Cozens - Ryan

if both Cozens and Byfield make the team I think you move someone out for picks to ensure that you can bring them both along as centres.

I think that team is for sure in the playoffs and I think as Cozens/ Byfield get better that is a SC contender in 3 years.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

Here's what I do:
first I trade down from one (I know, I know) but we have built from the wings in for too long and it hasn't worked. So I trade down with LA and pick up either a couple extra picks or a prospect like Kaliyev if possible. Or if the rumours are true that LA wants stutzle I trade down to three and pick up Ottawa's late first. Whatever you can get and still ensure you get Quinton Byfield.

Next I trade Gaudreau for really any of the packages discussed here but for the sake of the post and keep it consistent with my previous posts lets say its to Buffalo for Cozens and Reinhart

Third, I sign Hall.

Now we are going into the draft with Byfield as a lock, One of the top young centre prospects the league, our own first and possibly a NYI first or a handful of extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd from moving down.


Now our prospect pool is completely re vamped and we still have a competitive team that will only get better over the following few seasons.

By next year we could be seeing something like:
Hall - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Reinhart
Bennett - Byfield - Mangiapane
Lucic - Dube/Cozens - Ryan

if both Cozens and Byfield make the team I think you move someone out for picks to ensure that you can bring them both along as centres.

I think that team is for sure in the playoffs and I think as Cozens/ Byfield get better that is a SC contender in 3 years.

It's intriguing to think about adding Cozens and Byfield and then have them both reach their potential. I mean, that's Cup contending C depth if they do.

Hopefully they don't go they way of Bennett though, that's always the risk with these prospects.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It's intriguing to think about adding Cozens and Byfield and then have them both reach their potential. I mean, that's Cup contending C depth if they do.

Hopefully they don't go they way of Bennett though, that's always the risk with these prospects.

yep for sure but you have to imagine between the 6'3 centre who was just named the best prospect in hockey and the 6'5 centre who outscored 99% of draft eligible players over the last 5 years despite being the youngest guy in the draft, that one of them will reach their potential.

which would still leave you with Monahan as a #2 Backlund as a shutdown C and the other one will still be contributing to the team in one way or another

That imo is still cup contending C depth

[SuperMatt18]

The big thing with the Gaudreau trade is the looming expansion draft.

No sense in adding a young d-man just to then risk losing another d-man via the expansion draft.

I do think the Gaudreau trade will focus on prospects and forwards, and I think the Flames are likely looking for three pieces in return.

My guess is the starting point probably would be something like:

Young RFA Age NHLer
Player Approaching UFA (To balance cap)
Pick/Prospects

With add-ons added to balance out depending on the quality of the young NHLer/Prospect

From the teams listed most often in rumors (PHI, BUF, NY teams) the starting point for a package probably looks something like.

Buffalo:
Sam Reinhart
Colin Miller ($1M Cap retained by Buffalo, Flames would expose him in expansion draft)
1st / Prospects (Anybody not named Cozens probably)

Philadelphia:
Travis Sanheim
Scott Laughton
1st/Prospects (Maybe like a Farabee or Morgan Frost)

Boston:
DeBrusk
??? (Maybe Grzelcyk)
1st/Prospects

Columbus:
Anderson
Murray or Jenner
1st/Prospects

I feel like I'm still not sure about the value and if that would be enough but feel like something like that would be the structure.

[FlamesLitSquad]

I think that lineup looks great - might run into an issue after the ELC's but at that time the Brouwer / Stone / Lucic mess is mostly gone. Might have a rough first year while players develop but long term we would be great - would also give time for Parsons/Wolf to take the 1B as well.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by New Era

W.... Treliving has done some good things, but his bad things have greatly handicapped this team. He needs to show what kind of manager he is and resolve that problem so we can bring in the talent we need. I think he can do it. There are moves available to cover the addition of two more top six players. He just has to get it done.

I agree with all this. The only comment I have is the free agency deals to older players always seem to fail, not just for the Flames but every team. Smarter teams seem to bring in lower level "leaders" for the bottom 2 lines at lower end deals and reward their own younger players with bigger long term contracts.

I would like to see them give the young guys a chance and then if they don't work out fairly quickly, or at least show progress from year to year, then make the decision to move on and let another younger guy attempt to fill that roll (i.e., give Dube the chance to play higher up the lineup and if he does not succeed either move him down or out and replace with a guy like Gawdin). That way you have a younger player who could help on an entry level deal.

No more deals to Browers, James Neal, etc. They are the cap killers and really don't provide much. If you can get a player like Ryan for decent money that is fine.

But great post from you.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The big thing with the Gaudreau trade is the looming expansion draft.

No sense in adding a young d-man just to then risk losing another d-man via the expansion draft.

I do think the Gaudreau trade will focus on prospects and forwards, and I think the Flames are likely looking for three pieces in return.

My guess is the starting point probably would be something like:

Young RFA Age NHLer
Player Approaching UFA (To balance cap)
Pick/Prospects

With add-ons added to balance out depending on the quality of the young NHLer/Prospect

From the teams listed most often in rumors (PHI, BUF, NY teams) the starting point for a package probably looks something like.

Buffalo:
Sam Reinhart
Colin Miller ($1M Cap retained by Buffalo, Flames would expose him in expansion draft)
1st / Prospects (Anybody not named Cozens probably)

Philadelphia:
Travis Sanheim
Scott Laughton
1st/Prospects (Maybe like a Farabee or Morgan Frost)

Boston:
DeBrusk
??? (Maybe Grzelcyk)
1st/Prospects

Columbus:
Anderson
Murray or Jenner
1st/Prospects

I feel like I'm still not sure about the value and if that would be enough but feel like something like that would be the structure.

I personally wouldn't accept any of those.

Buffalo: Cozens or the 2020 1st absolutely must be included. If the 2020 1st is the one included in your proposed trade I would probably accept it, given we had already signed Hall.

Philly: 1 of Patrick or Frost has to be included. I think Farabee is alright but don't see massive upside potential which is what we need for Gaudreau in my eyes. I would also prefer Myers to Sanheim but I could make due with Sanheim if the 2020 1st and 1 of Patrick or Frost comes too. Again, Hall acquisition is still a must before this trade.

Boston: Havent even considered the Bruins before. I like DeBrusk but don't see much of value outside of him that we might be able to take, and again DeBrusk lacks that game breaking potential that we would need to at least get back from Johnny. Hard pass IMO.

If those are the best offers we are getting I would keep johnny.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The big thing with the Gaudreau trade is the looming expansion draft.

No sense in adding a young d-man just to then risk losing another d-man via the expansion draft.

I do think the Gaudreau trade will focus on prospects and forwards, and I think the Flames are likely looking for three pieces in return.

My guess is the starting point probably would be something like:

Young RFA Age NHLer
Player Approaching UFA (To balance cap)
Pick/Prospects

With add-ons added to balance out depending on the quality of the young NHLer/Prospect

From the teams listed most often in rumors (PHI, BUF, NY teams) the starting point for a package probably looks something like.

Buffalo:
Sam Reinhart
Colin Miller ($1M Cap retained by Buffalo, Flames would expose him in expansion draft)
1st / Prospects (Anybody not named Cozens probably)

Philadelphia:
Travis Sanheim
Scott Laughton
1st/Prospects (Maybe like a Farabee or Morgan Frost)

Boston:
DeBrusk
??? (Maybe Grzelcyk)
1st/Prospects

Columbus:
Anderson
Murray or Jenner
1st/Prospects

I feel like I'm still not sure about the value and if that would be enough but feel like something like that would be the structure.

The Philly and Columbus deals have Dmen coming back as main pieces that need expansion protection.

I think everyone knows my position but getting expansion exempt players is the key for me. I keep looking at NJ as a better trading partner due to their 3 1st round picks (including 7th overall) and prospects they can add. My proposed Zacha, Smith, 7th overall gets the team a cost controlled forward that is a solid 3C that plays a ton on the PK. A former 1st rounder who is expansion exempt and also near NHL ready and a top 7 pick in a draft that looks to be solid through the top 10. It clears $4.5M, fills a hole up the middle, and adds a key prospect that hopefully turns into a core piece. Marco Rossi or Cole Perfetti can be first line players in the future and both could be available at 7. If they are not then that means one of Raymond, or Drysdale will be and I take either of those players as well.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Even if both those players leave, we'd still need forwards more.

If Johnny got traded for a D-man and a goalie, the only top 6 forwards on the team would be Monahan, Lindholm and Tkachuk. That's an anemic cruise right to the draft lottery IMO

We'd need forwards more if Gaudreau was As it stands right now, we need a right side top 4 defenseman more than we need a forward. But if we made such a deal, we would need a forward more like you said. This is just another reason to wait to see if we can sign Hall before even entertaining the idea of trading Gaudreau.

[dammage79]

Ypu could move Johnny for a dman and a goalie only if we won the lottery and snagged Lafreniere. Thatd be the only viable outcome. You get a free replacement for Johnny with the best player in the draft. I'd still prefer a RHS forward though.

[Vinny01]

Flames have been loosely linked to Barrie in the past. I wonder what he is going to do in free agency?

I don’t think Calgary has the money but Hall, Barrie (or re-sign Brodie), and Lehner would all be targets that fill holes on the team. I have read Lehner being a Flames target a couple of times.

[Toonage]

I mean, if you are positive Gaudreau isn't staying here, that Rangers deal with their 2020 1st thrown in, isn't awful. It covers a lot of needs, leaves you with some cap that can be squirreled away for a LW/RW, Georgiev is going to be a #1, DeAngelo covers that RHD need.

If the Flames happen to lose the play in (as do the Rangers) then its likely they draft 12 & 13

Worst case scenario, 2 late 1st round picks they could take or package.

Seems alright, or am I part of the problem?

[Roof-Daddy]

Sabres fans hate the idea of trading either 8th overall or Cozens for a LW because they rightly say they need a really good C more. They also mostly don't want to move Reinhart because he's their only top six winger that shoots right. He's their "Lindholm" so to speak, although nowhere near as good as Lindholm.

Such a bad trade partner for the Flames unless the new GM wants to make a major splash and can't find a C anywhere to trade those pieces for, but doesn't want to (or isn't allowed to) stay the course and and wait for those futures to either bust or come to fruition.

Honestly though, the Sabres are my favorite trade partner for speculating, because I'm a huge Cozens fan, and I also think if Johnny is dealt for a 1st it should be a top ten pick. (That's another problem of it's own though, because to deal him for an assured top ten pick he needs to be traded before Hall can likely be secured).

Also Jersey, again because they have 7th overall (and a few other decent futures), plus they have multiple 1sts so might be more willing to part with one. On top of that, they are hoping they've already drafted their 1-2 punch down the middle with Hischier and Hughes, and IMO they desperately need a star winger to help those guys along. To top it all off, Johnny has his off season home in Jersey, so re-signing him doesn't seem like it would be a total pipe dream for them.

Winning the lottery, well that would obviously be amazing too. Trading down is also intriguing if they win the lotto. If you drop to 3rd, still get Byfield but also pick up the Isles 1st plus a couple of 2nds from Ottawa, well then you have currency to make other moves as well. Maybe you use a couple of those picks to get a good young goalie like Jarry or Giorgiev, or maybe an established starter like Murray. Or maybe you can move a couple of those picks for a good young winger. Buchnevich was traded to Colorado for a 2nd and 3rd last year and look at the jump he took for the Avs this year.

If the Flames can't get by the Jets, winning the 1st OA, combined with potentially trading Gaudreau and signing Hall could set this team up to not only be competitive now, but would potentially afford them the ability to extend the window out for years and years as well.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Flames have been loosely linked to Barrie in the past. I wonder what he is going to do in free agency?

I don’t think Calgary has the money but Hall, Barrie (or re-sign Brodie), and Lehner would all be targets that fill holes on the team. I have read Lehner being a Flames target a couple of times.

Ill be a bit upset if the Flames end up signing Lehner to a big deal. Not because I don't like the idea, I do, but they had a chance to grab him in 2018 when he was still sitting days after free agency started, and they could have wrapped him up for a song. Now they'll overpay and didn't have him in the fold the past 3 seasons. A bit maddening.

[CsInMyBlood]

What I find funny is how underrated so many people value Flames players.

If Johnny Gaudreau was a player on another team, like an Islander or Flyer and there were rumours of him moving on this board would be going insane with proposals on how to get him here on the Flames. He would be considered 10x as good.

Some of these proposals of returns for him make me literally cringe.

Im not moving Johnny unless he is set on not resigning here. I'm not taking Ryan Leslie or Eric Francis thoughts on the matter as gospel like so many on this board are. Im doing what I can to keep him.

Believing signing Taylor freaking Hall is an answer to anything is a huge handcuffing mistake.

[AC]

Again, I think the general consensus is that Hall isn't seen as an upgrade on Gaudreau. However, if we don't sign Hall and Gaudreau gets to free agency and walks leaving us with nothing...

All these hypotheticals are operating under the assumption that Treliving knows what Gaudreau wants to do. If Gaudreau and his agent even hint at wanting to test free agency, the team needs to move him for a good return. It's pure asset management at some point. Gaudreau has 2 years remaining of a very friendly caphit, and 1 year remaining without a NTC, so he should hold significant value around the league (especially to a team that thinks they can convince him to extend). Meanwhile it just so happens the top UFA is another #1LW who also happens to be from Calgary.

Signing Hall while moving Gaudreau for 1 or 2 really good pieces is obviously better than losing Gaudreau for nothing in 2 years.

Though I agree that most of the proposed returns are underwhelming. The team shouldn't be looking at a trade featuring 3-5 pieces coming back IMO. But we'll see.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Sabres fans hate the idea of trading either 8th overall or Cozens for a LW because they rightly say they need a really good C more. They also mostly don't want to move Reinhart because he's their only top six winger that shoots right. He's their "Lindholm" so to speak, although nowhere near as good as Lindholm.

If Sabres fans genuinely believe they need a C more than a star winger, they have reached Oiler fan levels of delusion. The Sabres have 4 top 6 forwards, only one of whom is a legitimate first liner. Having a setup guy for Eichel, rather than Eichel being the set up guy for Skinner would lift Eichel to a new level of production. When you are that bad and need to improve ASAP or risk having Eichel demand a trade, you need the best players you can get regardless of position.

[Roof-Daddy]

I also want to add that one of my favorite ideas someone posted for a Gaudreau trade was to Carolina with Martin Necas coming back as the main piece of the return. Right shot RW or C was on pace for 20 goals and 44 points as a 21 year old rookie. IMO it'd be like getting another Lindholm off of them, this time the Czech version. Seems like a pipe dream though to pry him away when he's still got 2 years left on his ELC, maybe if he was an RFA.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

If Sabres fans genuinely believe they need a C more than a star winger, they have reached Oiler fan levels of delusion. The Sabres have 4 top 6 forwards, only one of whom is a legitimate first liner. Having a setup guy for Eichel, rather than Eichel being the set up guy for Skinner would lift Eichel to a new level of production. When you are that bad and need to improve ASAP or risk having Eichel demand a trade, you need the best players you can get regardless of position.

I agree. Sabres fans saying they don't need Gaudreau because they have Skinner and Olofsson is kind of like if Flames fans said they don't need Eichel because they have Monahan and Backlund.

[SeanCharles]

I’m not saying it will be immediate given the uncertainty surrounding Valimaki and Gio isn’t getting any younger but do we not expect Hanifin, Andersson and Valimaki all to be good enough for top 4 minutes?

Hanifin and Andersson are already there to go along with Gio. Meanwhile Valimaki was on a short path towards achieving that before he got hurt.

We also have Kylington, Mackey and Yelesin all capable/soon to be capable of playing bottom pairing minutes.

I have no doubt Stone would re-sign for league minimum to stay on as the #7 as he wants to stay in Calgary.

Kinnvall and Poolman are far from a sure thing but they both have potential to be young NHL defensemen within the next couple years as well.

I know it is Tre’s MO to have a lot of defensive depth but what is this big rush to add another dman?

There are guys like Vatanen and Schultz as FA’s that could potentially be targeted if we move on from Brodie and Hamonic.

All this highly paid defensive depth over the years during the regular season has done what for us?

You know come trade deadline time Tre will add bodies back there anyways.

I think our priorities should be to acquire more higher skill depth upfront and to secure a 2nd goalie that can make a solid tandem.

I agree we do need to add one more guy on defence but with the expansion draft looming, and the fact I don’t see the Flames leaving Gio exposed even if it might be the right thing to do, it might not be the logical path to acquire one via trade of high value assets.

Gio
Hanifin
Andersson
Valimaki
??????
Kylington
Stone

Mackey
Yelesin
Poolman
Lerby

Kinnvall