2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Mighty tight, and I think we would be Very lucky to get Holtby and Mangiapane in at those amounts, but it's not completely impossible.

Interesting squad, a lot of folks playing on "off" hands but I have never been hugely bought into that positional need myself.

I think the Holtby contract is about right. He's a sub-.900 goalie this year. Likely looking at going out on a show me contract to earn himself a starting gig again.

Mangiapane would be squeezed into a 1 or 2 year deal due to cap constraints. If he signs a 2 year deal, he'd have 1 RFA year left and arbitration rights at the end of it - so it may put him in a position to get him to free agency as quick as possible and gain some negotiation power.

Yeah, the defence is a pile of lefties on the right side, as is the RW situation - but I wouldn't call that team completed either, just an in-between state. We know if Hall is signed, it's likely Johnny is gone - but we wouldn't be forced to do it so Tree can take his time to negotiate a massive return ala Sakic with Duchene.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Then we don’t deal with Philly and I looked at other teams like New Jersey and Buffalo as better trade partners because they have assets, needs and cap space to make the deal work. You make it sound like we have to trade him to Philly and therefore have to eat a bad contract. Simply not the case and the money in money out issue is why these deals don’t happen during the season. When the Flames traded for Dougie they sent zero cap to the Bruins and immediately picked up a player they paid $5.75M for.

We have to trade Gaudreau to a team that will take him and absorb the cost. YOU are making assumptions that Buffalo or New Jersey is going to increase their budget to bring Gaudreau in. Nothing indicates that either team is willing to increase their budget and spend more money to bring other players in. We've seen both teams make moves to dump big ticket players or make moves that are cost neutral. Neither looks to be willing to accept contract that will increase budget.

When the Flames traded for Hamilton they were in a position to accept the contract because Calgary was a healthy market and had the money to do so. Our situation is very different from the small market teams out there, although we may be headed back to those cost controlled days in the near future as the Calgary economy continues to struggle. Cap space is only valuable if you have the ability to use it.

I don’t know why you are so concerned about the 7th pick in the draft? It could bust or could be a top line player. I think chances are better they can find a future core piece.

Because Sam Bennett. Because rarely does a player develop into what you think they will be. Anyone going to the draft table and thinking they are drafting a player that is going to replace your franchise player is delusional. There is a very long road from being drafted to playing in the NHL. What you do after your draft determines what type of player you are going to be.

I don’t see a protection slot available for Myers without losing Gio. You are fine losing Gio for nothing which I don’t think the organization would agree.

Then they are fools. If you are willing to protect a 38 year old player over a young promising player that could be with you for the next decade, you shouldn't be running a franchise. There are hard decisions you have to make and sentimentality cannot come into play. Sentimentality is what ####ed us with Jarome Iginla. Read the writing on the wall and prepare for it. If you don't the world will pass you by.

I do find it insane that there are people against acquiring a player because he's 30, yet these same people will defend spending a protection slot on a 38 year old. The inconsistency is crazy.

I just don’t know what you see in Frost. He is Dillion Dube to me which is a good young player but you have him centering our second line next year. Not a ppg in AHL, 7pts in 20 games in the NHL and drafted 3 years ago. I take my chances with the 7th pick over this guy every day.

I suggest you do a little more research instead of using flawed measures like PPG in the AHL. Frost's AHL team was not a strong team and didn't score a lot. To put it in terms you can understand, Frost was 2nd on his team in scoring, racking up 29 points in 41 games (.707 PPG). The leading scorer on that team hit 30 points in 57 games (.526 PPG). See difference? That is a massive leap beyond the closest player on the team. His seven points in 20 games at the NHL level is pretty impressive when you consider who he is playing behind. Context matters when reviewing things.

No and no. Voracek means the team can’t sign Hall and having Voracek, Lucic, Backlund all on huge money deals hurts the teams ability to add to this group. It takes away the free asset in Taylor Hall who is the main reason I fee this team can move on from Johnny in the first place.

I agree with this. The Flames need to get the most bang for their buck in their budget. $5.25M for a 4th liner is criminal. That move prevents the team from making the moves necessary to compete. That contract basically gives the Flames $8M in dead cap space. That pays for that top line player. Treliving has done some good things, but his bad things have greatly handicapped this team. He needs to show what kind of manager he is and resolve that problem so we can bring in the talent we need. I think he can do it. There are moves available to cover the addition of two more top six players. He just has to get it done.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think the Holtby contract is about right. He's a sub-.900 goalie this year. Likely looking at going out on a show me contract to earn himself a starting gig again.

Mangiapane would be squeezed into a 1 or 2 year deal due to cap constraints. If he signs a 2 year deal, he'd have 1 RFA year left and arbitration rights at the end of it - so it may put him in a position to get him to free agency as quick as possible and gain some negotiation power.

Yeah, the defence is a pile of lefties on the right side, as is the RW situation - but I wouldn't call that team completed either, just an in-between state. We know if Hall is signed, it's likely Johnny is gone - but we wouldn't be forced to do it so Tree can take his time to negotiate a massive return ala Sakic with Duchene.

Maybe Holtby. I think Mangiapane will want more as Tre played tough with him last go around. He is the one that ended up bending that time, and then he came in and over performed. I think it will be difficult and potentially injurious to our relationship with the player to try and bend him over again.

Plus I am a bread fan!

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

We have to trade Gaudreau to a team that will take him and absorb the cost. YOU are making assumptions that Buffalo or New Jersey is going to increase their budget to bring Gaudreau in. Nothing indicates that either team is willing to increase their budget and spend more money to bring other players in. We've seen both teams make moves to dump big ticket players or make moves that are cost neutral. Neither looks to be willing to accept contract that will increase budget....

We don't have to trade Johnny. Other teams will want Johnny.

The 38 year old just won the Norris and is still playing at an absolute elite level, also - he doesn't have an acquisition cost and is engrained in our community. Why would we spend key assets when it puts us in a position to lose our best defenceman? Your logic is flawed. Why did Boston protect Chara? Sentimentality? Or was it because he was elite?

You're also overly enamoured with Frost, while undervaluing the hell out of Johnny.

[Vinny01]

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2020/0...ng-to.html?m=1

Another one

Johnny for Ristolainen and Reinhart

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2020/0...ng-to.html?m=1

Another one

Johnny for Ristolainen and Reinhart

I'm not as down on Risto as many, but we'd need more and there is no way that fits under the cap.

[Vinny01]

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2020/0...ichel.html?m=1


3 bad Eichel deals.

Flames one is Lindholm, Bennett, Parsons and picks.

Sign me up!!!

[Toonage]

Now is a good time for the weekly reminder that the Flames looked into Risto and opted against trading for him. It will never happen.

Ever.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2020/0...ichel.html?m=1


3 bad Eichel deals.

Flames one is Lindholm, Bennett, Parsons and picks.

Sign me up!!!

Is this like a hospital exercise for people who have sustained brain trauma?

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2020/0...ichel.html?m=1


3 bad Eichel deals.

Flames one is Lindholm, Bennett, Parsons and picks.

Sign me up!!!

It would really suck to see Lindy go but that is an absolute yes from our end lol. I hope to see Lindy in flames red until he retires but I would drive him to the airport for Eichel.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by New Era

We have to trade Gaudreau to a team that will take him and absorb the cost. YOU are making assumptions that Buffalo or New Jersey is going to increase their budget to bring Gaudreau in. Nothing indicates that either team is willing to increase their budget and spend more money to bring other players in. We've seen both teams make moves to dump big ticket players or make moves that are cost neutral. Neither looks to be willing to accept contract that will increase budget.

When the Flames traded for Hamilton they were in a position to accept the contract because Calgary was a healthy market and had the money to do so. Our situation is very different from the small market teams out there, although we may be headed back to those cost controlled days in the near future as the Calgary economy continues to struggle. Cap space is only valuable if you have the ability to use it.



Because Sam Bennett. Because rarely does a player develop into what you think they will be. Anyone going to the draft table and thinking they are drafting a player that is going to replace your franchise player is delusional. There is a very long road from being drafted to playing in the NHL. What you do after your draft determines what type of player you are going to be.



Then they are fools. If you are willing to protect a 38 year old player over a young promising player that could be with you for the next decade, you shouldn't be running a franchise. There are hard decisions you have to make and sentimentality cannot come into play. Sentimentality is what ####ed us with Jarome Iginla. Read the writing on the wall and prepare for it. If you don't the world will pass you by.

I do find it insane that there are people against acquiring a player because he's 30, yet these same people will defend spending a protection slot on a 38 year old. The inconsistency is crazy.



I suggest you do a little more research instead of using flawed measures like PPG in the AHL. Frost's AHL team was not a strong team and didn't score a lot. To put it in terms you can understand, Frost was 2nd on his team in scoring, racking up 29 points in 41 games (.707 PPG). The leading scorer on that team hit 30 points in 57 games (.526 PPG). See difference? That is a massive leap beyond the closest player on the team. His seven points in 20 games at the NHL level is pretty impressive when you consider who he is playing behind. Context matters when reviewing things.



I agree with this. The Flames need to get the most bang for their buck in their budget. $5.25M for a 4th liner is criminal. That move prevents the team from making the moves necessary to compete. That contract basically gives the Flames $8M in dead cap space. That pays for that top line player. Treliving has done some good things, but his bad things have greatly handicapped this team. He needs to show what kind of manager he is and resolve that problem so we can bring in the talent we need. I think he can do it. There are moves available to cover the addition of two more top six players. He just has to get it done.

I think it is safer to assume a team will find a way to bring in a perennial top 10 scorer in the league for 6.75M than Lucic will walk away from $14M which is an assumption YOU made. Both of us are making assumptions mine makes more sense.

NJ just took Subban’s $9M contract last summer why wouldn’t they look to add a home state star this year? Their 2 franchise cornerstones are young centers and Johnny absolutely compliments either of them.

You use the Sam Bennett example but what about Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm, and Hanifin? Picked either 5th or 6th and all 3 forwards are top line and Hanifin is a top 4 D. Bennett didn’t work out but 4 other top 6 picks from the Flames rebuild (2 drafted by the team) have all worked out well.

There is no inconsistency in the don’t trade for Voracek and don’t let Gio go. In your scenario we are giving up our 27 year old 6.75M elite forward and part of the return is a 8.25M 31 year old lesser forward with 4 more years on his deal. This takes away the Flames ability to add Taylor Hall in free agency. I can understand why people do not want to trade one of our franchise players for a 31 year old. I can also understand why we would not want to lose our franchise Dman for absolutely nothing to an expansion draft. We are paying a dear price for one aging player and losing the other with zero assets in return. You can’t see the difference there?


I will admit ignorance on Frost. You could be right but I don’t see it. I will also admit to not doing any form of deep dive to see if you out are right. I read an article this week that listed him as the 28th best drafted prospect in the league. Not bad but doesn’t scream first liner to me either

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

We don't have to trade Johnny. Other teams will want Johnny.

If the team knows he's not going to resign, and there are indications they clearly know what the future holds, they yeah, they have to trade him. You don't let your franchise player walk away for nothing.

The 38 year old just won the Norris and is still playing at an absolute elite level, also - he doesn't have an acquisition cost and is engrained in our community. Why would we spend key assets when it puts us in a position to lose our best defenceman? Your logic is flawed. Why did Boston protect Chara? Sentimentality? Or was it because he was elite?

Well, the 34 year old won Norris. We'll see what the 38 year old is playing like. There could be a big difference, especially after this break. We'll see how his legs are when we come back.

The reason the Bruins protected Chara is because they had no one else on the blueline they felt was worthy of a slot. The exposed the following to protect Chara (NHL games played post expansion draft).

Linus Arnesson (zero games played)
Chris Casto (zero games played)
Tommy Cross (zero games played)
Alex Grant (zero games played)
John-Michael Liles (zero games played)
Adam McQuaid (88 games played for three different teams)
Colin Miller (selected by Vegas, played two seasons before being traded away to Buffalo)
Joe Morrow (97 games played between two teams before going to Europe)

You're also overly enamoured with Frost, while undervaluing the hell out of Johnny.

I'm not undervaluing Gaudreau. I just recognize the constraints of today's NHL. You're right, I am enamored with Frost. Just like so many are enamored with Cozens, and for many of the same reasons. The kid is a stud. Just a great young player that if he were in the Flames system people would tripping all over themselves about how good this kid is going to be. At worst he turns into Daymond Langkow. At best he turns into Marc Savard. I see more Savard than I do Langkow. Get this kid if they have a chance.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

Is this like a hospital exercise for people who have sustained brain trauma?

I had to post the Eichel ones to show how bad that site is at player evaluation

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2020/0...ohnny.html?m=1

All of these are terrible

Korpisalo, Murray and a draft pick....

Hahaha, could you imagine?

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Mangiapane would be squeezed into a 1 or 2 year deal due to cap constraints. If he signs a 2 year deal, he'd have 1 RFA year left and arbitration rights at the end of it - so it may put him in a position to get him to free agency as quick as possible and gain some negotiation power.

There was an artical out on Flames Nation on the weekend in which Evolving Hockey had Mangiapane as 2.4 on a one year deal. I think it figured you might get him for 3 years at a tick higher like 2.75 which takes him to UFA and 3 if you wanted 4 years. Those guys are pretty good at evaluating what it takes to sign players.

Most years 300 or 400k...would not make a huge difference but this year it will squeeze things. I might try a 2 year deal here like what Bennett was given. But that's a fair way North of what many here are projecting for Eat Bread. The analytics seem to support him as a player the Flames should bet on.

[Geeoff]

Why do all these trade rumors say the Flames need defensemen? Do they follow the team at all? Gaudreau is like 50% of the Flames offense. They already need top 6 forwards, so if they trade Johnny, they're REALLY gonna need forwards

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Why do all these trade rumors say the Flames need defensemen? Do they follow the team at all? Gaudreau is like 50% of the Flames offense. They already need top 6 forwards, so if they trade Johnny, they're REALLY gonna need forwards

Because the assumption is that Brodie and Hamonic are leaving.

[TheScorpion]

The Flames could really use a young right-shot dman. But otherwise, they're pretty well set on the back-end. Two good young LHD, a stalwart in Giordano, and a good young RHD.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Why do all these trade rumors say the Flames need defensemen? Do they follow the team at all? Gaudreau is like 50% of the Flames offense. They already need top 6 forwards, so if they trade Johnny, they're REALLY gonna need forwards

Honestly, if you aren't a flames fan or don't report on the Flames, they have zero clue about the team, hell even msm can't get their reporting right on the Flames most of the time. I'm talking from Bobby Mac and down. They simply do not pay attention enough.

The outside world seem to think on paper the Flames need Defense and goaltending. On paper it makes sense. And Tree has an MO of going heavy on D.

They couldn't be more wrong. We know this, we follow the team religiously.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

Because the assumption is that Brodie and Hamonic are leaving.

Even if both those players leave, we'd still need forwards more.


If Johnny got traded for a D-man and a goalie, the only top 6 forwards on the team would be Monahan, Lindholm and Tkachuk. That's an anemic cruise right to the draft lottery IMO