Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The new arena looks to be cheap and soulless.

That's because it's an empty parking lot.

[vennegoor of hesselink]

Originally Posted by Muta

Knew this for a while; was confused why they'd go with the same design team as Edmonton, considering that building has some complaints and its mechanical issues are problematic. I know the Little Ceasars Arena was a building the clients really liked. That said, HOK is a good design firm and I'm sure they'll do something great. They also did the Mercedes-Benz stadium in Atlanta, which is really cool.

I was in Atlanta for the Thanksgiving game last year and if the new rink is half as good as Mercedes-Benz arena we are in for a treat.



I'm guessing I wont get 2 slices of Pizza and and a coke (with refill stations around the stadium) for 8 bucks US in the new arena though .

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Muta

Knew this for a while; was confused why they'd go with the same design team as Edmonton, considering that building has some complaints and its mechanical issues are problematic. I know the Little Ceasars Arena was a building the clients really liked. That said, HOK is a good design firm and I'm sure they'll do something great. They also did the Mercedes-Benz stadium in Atlanta, which is really cool.

Hey it’s not like Katz would shove his head in where it doesn’t belong and overrule people he hired for their decision making expertise... **cough** Nail Yakapov **cough**...

No he would never do that.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by vennegoor of hesselink

I was in Atlanta for the Thanksgiving game last year and if the new rink is half as good as Mercedes-Benz arena we are in for a treat.



I'm guessing I wont get 2 slices of Pizza and and a coke (with refill stations around the stadium) for 8 bucks US in the new arena though .

In Atlanta? Are you thinking of State Farm Arena, where the NBA's Hawks play? There's no Mercedes-Benz arena, just the Mercedes-Benz football stadium. And there's almost zero comparison to be made between those as a state of the art $1.6bil football stadium just won't look or function in any way that you can replicate or or compare to a hockey arena.

And even if you could, one's 1.6billion, the other will be $500mil.

[Flamenspiel]

Really the only impressive arena of the recent builds in Canada is the Bell Centre in Montreal, they did a fantastic job in every way. It puts the Edmonton build to shame, and built privately!

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Locke

Am I the only one who wishes they'd gone with someone completely different than Edmonton did?

This seems like a mistake. If it was 'Good Enough for Edmonton' that tends to mean you get stuck with Bibliotank and the Giant Toilet.

Nope, I am terrified of this choice. Getting Rogers Centre Calgary edition would be a total disaster IMO.

[Toonage]

It won't look a thing like Rogers Place on the outside (or inside I'd suggest).

Looking at the library, the BMO drawings, its clear there is a design theme going on.

[Bingo]

I'm a naturally optimistic person, but I just don't have the same fears. Any company that does a project that has had complaints (especially public ones) won't just mindlessly jump off the very same cliff.

Bathrooms have been mentioned every where ... elitism of the lower bowl vs the upper bowl. They won't do the same again. Why would they?

Plus the Flames are putting together a focus group of fans who will be all over those issues.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm a naturally optimistic person, but I just don't have the same fears. Any company that does a project that has had complaints (especially public ones) won't just mindlessly jump off the very same cliff.

Bathrooms have been mentioned every where ... elitism of the lower bowl vs the upper bowl. They won't do the same again. Why would they?

Plus the Flames are putting together a focus group of fans who will be all over those issues.

Comes down to money though and when the numbers start adding up are they going to hit the city up for more money?

I think the only thing you can really assume though is the upper level will likely suck in favor of luxury seating/lower bowl. Everything else is up in the air really.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Comes down to money though and when the numbers start adding up are they going to hit the city up for more money?

I think the only thing you can really assume though is the upper level will likely suck in favor of luxury seating/lower bowl. Everything else is up in the air really.

I'm pleased about a number of things concerning the Arena agreement, but one thing in particular is I believe the Flames are on the hook for any and all cost-overruns.

The City is just putting in their chunk. Thats it. You go over that and its on you.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm pleased about a number of things concerning the Arena agreement, but one thing in particular is I believe the Flames are on the hook for any and all cost-overruns.

The City is just putting in their chunk. Thats it. You go over that and its on you.

I think it depends on the cost overruns. There's definitely a stipulation that if there are overruns because of something one side wants then that party is on the hook for the whole thing (i.e. CSEC decides they want to change the Flames dressing room; or the city wanting different materials on the 'main photo angle' side of the building). But I believe general cost overruns (i.e. materials or labour costing more) are split between the city and CSEC.

[Red Slinger]

I think the biggest contribution factor in favour of the Calgary arena being better than Edmonton is Katz.

I have a friend that works in a senior role for the Katz group in architecture and design. She worked on the Stantec Tower project and worked directly with many of the top people in the organization including Katz and his parents (which seem to have a relatively large degree of input into the organization for some reason). She described the culture there as a bunch of 'yes men' backstabbing each other and sucking up to Katz and family. Everyone outside the family is afraid to make decisions because they don't want to look bad and when the occasional thing happens to go right they all line up to take credit. The result is a slow pace, toxic environment, chaos and generally unwise decision-making.

The Flames ownership group isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but they're generally professional, goal-oriented and not the Canadian business equivalent of Trump.

[Muta]

Doubt it's in consideration still, but one of the original ideas discussed several years ago was to put a bar / restaurant in the Jumbotron. The floor would be a glass floor, so patrons could watch the game from a bird's eye view. Neat idea if executed properly.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm pleased about a number of things concerning the Arena agreement, but one thing in particular is I believe the Flames are on the hook for any and all cost-overruns.

The City is just putting in their chunk. Thats it. You go over that and its on you.

Which really means anything that doesn't generate good revenue for the flames gets cut. See: Rogers in Edmonton.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Muta

Doubt it's in consideration still, but one of the original ideas discussed several years ago was to put a bar / restaurant in the Jumbotron. The floor would be a glass floor, so patrons could watch the game from a bird's eye view. Neat idea if executed properly.

Terrifying.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by Muta

Doubt it's in consideration still, but one of the original ideas discussed several years ago was to put a bar / restaurant in the Jumbotron. The floor would be a glass floor, so patrons could watch the game from a bird's eye view. Neat idea if executed properly.

So everybody is staring at their crotch the whole time?

[browna]

Issue is always going to be money as construction starts.

The inital amenities listed for Rogers Place were more extensive then when got built. The upper tier, similar to T Mobile in Vegas, where there are two bars basically at what would be the catwalk level off the Dome was planned, but never came through.

No matter how well the focus groups go and drawings look, if design or functionalty has to get cut as construction moves along, it's bad enough in altering the overal design and flow totally of what the building was meant to look or feel or function as initially. Worse, there can be a cascade effect.

Because they can't do/afford part a as planned, it means they also have to make serious changes to part b to make something work, which also affects how many part c and d peices there are (but are already built so can't be changed and have to be repurposed), or how they look and function etc. So some cost cut on one thing, can quickly escalate to other design or functional compromises and change a intended cool look or atmosphere or function, into something ugly and or soulless and or unusable in more than 1 way, which is what happened in Edmonton I am sure.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Muta

Doubt it's in consideration still, but one of the original ideas discussed several years ago was to put a bar / restaurant in the Jumbotron. The floor would be a glass floor, so patrons could watch the game from a bird's eye view. Neat idea if executed properly.

That's a terrible idea.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

So everybody is staring at their crotch the whole time?

My neck hurts thinking about that.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

My neck hurts thinking about that.

Haha, definitely. It's a niche concept, but I bet lots of people would go, especially tourists. It's always good to keep an open mind and discuss new creative ideas for projects like these, which are ultimately about building the fan experience.