Would anyone voluntary walk up to a police officer and have a conversation? Do they come across as friendly, or do you think they'd tell you to move along and #### off?
I don't understand why we live in a society where me, a law abiding citizen, loathes interacting with the police. It just doesn't make sense. They should be there to help. They should be part of the community and someone you trust. I struggle with this. If it's like that for me, a white, upper middle class, male, what is is it like for a poor indigenous person?
I did this frequently even before working where I do. I still do. The only time I have ever had a bad experience with a cop was after a minor single vehicle traffic accident when I was living in the States, where the cop was more concerned about the tree I hit than my (now ex) wife and I.
For the most part they are generally friendly, but they are also usually busy. On top of that, most folks are on edge in situations with police because what do police do? Hold us responsible for things we shouldn't be doing. Most folks interactions with cops are going to with cops telling them they can't/shouldn't be doing something (as pointed out, speeding, jaywalking etc) and we, as adults, HATE being told we shouldn't be doing something. We're adults, we're supposed to have the proper judgement to decide what we should or shouldn't be doing. How dare this other adult not only tell me I can't do what I want, but hold me responsible for it, too. It's also kind of embarrassing to be caught doing something you know you shouldn't have, and no one likes that, either.
Look at the sheer amount of whining over speeding tickets, for instance. If you have a driver's license, you know what a speed limit it and how to follow it. Doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with the limit, the obligation is to follow it...and when you don't and get busted, it's not your fault for speeding, it's the cops for stopping you. It's the "adults" fault, for "ruining your harmless fun."
We adults don't like being held responsible and accountable. After all, we're adults and supposed to be able to make those calls for ourselves. So when a cop has to hold us responsible, we tend to end up feeling upset and embarrassed. No one likes that. But it's easier to blame the cop for catching you and making you feel that way than realizing you caused those feelings with your own behaviours.
Last edited by WhiteTiger; 06-12-2020 at 11:32 AM.
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Look at the sheer amount of whining over speeding tickets, for instance. If you have a driver's license, you know what a speed limit it and how to follow it. Doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with the limit, the obligation is to follow it...and when you don't and get busted, it's not your fault for speeding, it's the cops for stopping you. It's the "adults" fault, for "ruining your harmless fun."
And if you're a person of colour, driving while black is very much a crime in the eyes of many law enforcement officers. You can be pulled over and harassed by the cops even if you've done absolutely nothing wrong. Like this guy, for example, who was stopped by police for "acting suspicious" because he was doing 65 in a 70 zone. If he had been doing 72, he probably would have been pulled over and cited for speeding. It's a no-win scenario.
This is what we white people really need to understand. The interactions we have with the police, which are generally positive and at worst neutral, are not the same experiences that minorities have with the police.
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This ####ing guy... gets all offended that the driver doesn’t want to discuss his plans with the officer. Who has just pulled him over for some obvious bull####. And is clearly digging for more. If a guy pulls you over for this are you going to willingly share information and prolong the experience? Unbelievable.
Again, nobody wants police out there bullying people like this. This isn’t what they are supposed to be doing. It’s as scary as it is enraging.
This ####ing guy... gets all offended that the driver doesn’t want to discuss his plans with the officer. Who has just pulled him over for some obvious bull####. And is clearly digging for more. If a guy pulls you over for this are you going to willingly share information and prolong the experience? Unbelievable.
Again, nobody wants police out there bullying people like this. This isn’t what they are supposed to be doing. It’s as scary as it is enraging.
No, I think we get it. Systemic racism is for sure a thing.
I hope you know that I am fully in support of BLM. But I think the only way we affect true change is to systemically change the way we look at the police and the roles we have given them and put some blame upon ourselves, as tax payers and voters, to realize we are part of the problem, not just the victims.
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I used to cross the border a lot from BC to Washington. Any time my black friend was with me, we were brought into the office and interrogated. Never happened to me any other time. I could see how angry my friend was, but he had to bite his tongue while we were being questioned by the border agents. We knew it was no coincidence.
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No, I think we get it. Systemic racism is for sure a thing.
I hope you know that I am fully in support of BLM. But I think the only way we affect true change is to systemically change the way we look at the police and the roles we have given them and put some blame upon ourselves, as tax payers and voters, to realize we are part of the problem, not just the victims.
I think that's what people are trying to say though. Cops aren't bad people, but the system needs to be reimagined. The solution can't be arming our cops like they are heading to Kandahar. That makes no sense.
Our society has never been safer but we have cops out there with armored vehicles.
No, I think we get it. Systemic racism is for sure a thing.
I hope you know that I am fully in support of BLM. But I think the only way we affect true change is to systemically change the way we look at the police and the roles we have given them and put some blame upon ourselves, as tax payers and voters, to realize we are part of the problem, not just the victims.
100%. And I wasn’t directing any particular statement to people in this thread. Just to the police. This “I run #### here” attitude is as engrained as the racism issues.
We absolutely have to institute change, from training, to outfits and vehicles.
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Following suit with the cancellation of Cops, A&E has cancelled Live PD. Evidently the crew had taped - but not aired - a fatal police shooting. There was also this, which I remember watching live and being flabbergasted that they showed it:
In all honesty I actually really liked this show and will miss it.
__________________ "It's a great day for hockey."
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"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm." -Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
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I think that's what people are trying to say though. Cops aren't bad people, but the system needs to be reimagined. The solution can't be arming our cops like they are heading to Kandahar. That makes no sense.
Our society has never been safer but we have cops out there with armored vehicles.
I linked this article, written by a former police officer, a few pages back. The author talks about all the various ways that cops destroy people's lives and get away with murder (sometimes literally) without making society any safer for anyone. But he's also sympathetic to his former colleagues-in-blue. He doesn't blame the issue of police brutality on individual bad officers but on a broken system that turns even the most well-meaning of police recruits into monsters.
From the article:
Quote:
Every police academy is different but all of them share certain features: taught by old cops, run like a paramilitary bootcamp, strong emphasis on protecting yourself more than anyone else. The majority of my time in the academy was spent doing aggressive physical training and watching video after video after video of police officers being murdered on duty.
I want to highlight this: nearly everyone coming into law enforcement is bombarded with dash cam footage of police officers being ambushed and killed. Over and over and over. Colorless VHS mortality plays, cops screaming for help over their radios, their bodies going limp as a pair of tail lights speed away into a grainy black horizon. In my case, with commentary from an old racist cop who used to brag about assaulting Black Panthers.
To understand why all cops are bastards, you need to understand one of the things almost every training officer told me when it came to using force:
“I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.”
Meaning, “I’ll take my chances in court rather than risk getting hurt”. We’re able to think that way because police unions are extremely overpowered and because of the generous concept of Qualified Immunity, a legal theory which says a cop generally can’t be held personally liable for mistakes they make doing their job in an official capacity.
When you look at the actions of the officers who killed George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, David McAtee, Mike Brown, Tamir Rice, Philando Castile, Eric Garner, or Freddie Gray, remember that they, like me, were trained to recite “I’d rather be judged by 12” as a mantra. Even if Mistakes Were Made™, the city (meaning the taxpayers, meaning you) pays the settlement, not the officer.
Once police training has - through repetition, indoctrination, and violent spectacle - promised officers that everyone in the world is out to kill them, the next lesson is that your partners are the only people protecting you. Occasionally, this is even true: I’ve had encounters turn on me rapidly to the point I legitimately thought I was going to die, only to have other officers come and turn the tables.
[...]
And to any cops who made it this far down, is this really the world you want to live in? Aren’t you tired of the trauma? Aren’t you tired of the soul sickness inherent to the badge? Aren’t you tired of looking the other way when your partners break the law? Are you really willing to kill the next George Floyd, the next Breonna Taylor, the next Tamir Rice? How confident are you that your next use of force will be something you’re proud of? I’m writing this for you too: it’s wrong what our training did to us, it’s wrong that they hardened our hearts to our communities, and it’s wrong to pretend this is normal.
So this video of the Chief getting arrested that’s going around highlights another thing I don’t understand. Punching someone in the face while arresting them. It happens in so many videos. Is the idea to knock them out cold? Because, it’s pretty hard to keep your hands down when you’re getting repeatedly socked in the face. They encourage more resistance and take their day out on these poor people. I can’t see a scenario where those two large 30 year old officers couldn’t easily apprehend that 50 year old chief without throwing blows.
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I know a lot of cops. They are frigging amazing people. They didn't become cops to power trip on people. They did it because they want to make a change. And they are browbeaten and #### on every day of their careers.
Assuming you're talking about the Calgary police, statistically, I doubt it. Most of CPS was giddy to elect Kaminsky as their union president. This Kaminsky:
[22] Realizing the gravity of the situation, the Accused told Kaminsky he had enough, and that he was going to exit the vehicle. On opening the door, and raising his arms in submission, Kaminsky grabbed the Accused by the arms and threw him like a rag-doll, face first, on to the hood of the Tahoe. While pulling his arms forcefully behind his back to handcuff him, the Accused complained about a shoulder injury and that he was in pain. Kaminsky responded by striking the Accused forcefully with the baton twice on the back of his neck. This was witnessed by the civilian witness, Amestica, who had just arrived at the scene by taxi, after being phoned by Smitna, to bring the registration and insurance documents for the Tahoe. Amestica, who was standing on the sidewalk 10-15 feet away, shouted at Kaminsky that he should stop hitting his friend, and that he was going to kill him. Kaminsky responded, “#### off and go away or you will go to jail too”.
...
[33] The Court having rejected the evidence of Constable Derrick, Sargent Kaminsky, and Acting Detective O’Neill as being unreliable and not credible, the Crown has not satisfied me beyond a reasonable doubt that the Accused uttered any threats to kill.
A thug who lied on a police report after beating up a citizen as 'punishment'. Admittedly not the best citizen, but a citizen all the same who at the time was doing no wrong.
Takes a real #### head cop to be called "unreliable and not credible" by a judge in a decision. And that's who the CPS wanted to make sure represented them.
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So this video of the Chief getting arrested that’s going around highlights another thing I don’t understand. Punching someone in the face while arresting them. It happens in so many videos. Is the idea to knock them out cold? Because, it’s pretty hard to keep your hands down when you’re getting repeatedly socked in the face. They encourage more resistance and take their day out on these poor people. I can’t see a scenario where those two large 30 year old officers couldn’t easily apprehend that 50 year old chief without throwing blows.
In general, punching not a reliable or safe take down method.
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So this video of the Chief getting arrested that’s going around highlights another thing I don’t understand. Punching someone in the face while arresting them. It happens in so many videos. Is the idea to knock them out cold? Because, it’s pretty hard to keep your hands down when you’re getting repeatedly socked in the face. They encourage more resistance and take their day out on these poor people. I can’t see a scenario where those two large 30 year old officers couldn’t easily apprehend that 50 year old chief without throwing blows.
It's mostly so while they are hitting you in the head they can yell "stop resisting" and do it enough that the person just finally relents and says "okay" and viola, they just admitted to the crime of resisting arrest.
It's the same reason they'll have multiple cops yelling different actions to take, so they can say they weren't complying. Little tricks of the trade to beat up people.
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Assuming you're talking about the Calgary police, statistically, I doubt it. Most of CPS was giddy to elect Kaminsky as their union president. This Kaminsky:
A thug who lied on a police report after beating up a citizen as 'punishment'. Admittedly not the best citizen, but a citizen all the same who at the time was doing no wrong.
Takes a real #### head cop to be called "unreliable and not credible" by a judge in a decision. And that's who the CPS wanted to make sure represented them.
No, I am not talking about Calgary. I live and have lived in small communities in North/Central Alberta most of my life.
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Following suit with the cancellation of Cops, A&E has cancelled Live PD. Evidently the crew had taped - but not aired - a fatal police shooting. There was also this, which I remember watching live and being flabbergasted that they showed it:
In all honesty I actually really liked this show and will miss it.
I like the show as well, mostly watched the youtube highlights while @ work.
Re. the clip you posted, how could they justify arresting the whole family?
Granted, they needed a good talking and the dumb kid maybe a warning about mouthing off to the Police, but wow what an overreaction!
I like the show as well, mostly watched the youtube highlights while @ work.
Re. the clip you posted, how could they justify arresting the whole family?
Granted, they needed a good talking and the dumb kid maybe a warning about mouthing off to the Police, but wow what an overreaction!
From the start it is a classic example of how cops escalate situations to the eventual mess we see in the end. The arrest of the kid didn't need to happen...he was walking away. The mother was irritating and in your face, but it seemed like the dad (?) had her corralled. But nope, "she yelled at me so arrest her". The shove the fat cop gave that guy was vicious.
This incident resulted in the citizens of Terre Haute forcing the city's hand to end the contract with Live PD (although it sounds like their presence had been a huge issue in the community since the contract was signed). I guess the cancellation of the show makes that effort moot.
Still amazed they aired that. I remember immediately being upset about the unnecessary force and escalation used by the cops.
__________________ "It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm." -Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
