02-11-2020, 04:24 PM
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#161
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob
You also have to take into account that the Oilers are playing about as well as they can, whereas the Flames have been playing near what they are capable of. Would be interesting see a rating over a bigger sample set.
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Think you mean "nowhere near".
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02-11-2020, 04:25 PM
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#162
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinit47
Because it gives you numbers to draw a conclusion from. You link a Corsica Hockey BETA website that shares no methodology and merely claims to use advanced statistics and machine learning to rank players. There is no transparency at all.
Here are some actual numbers.
Current Season 5v5.
Nurse 49.72 CF%, 49.09 FF%, 49.61 XG%
Andersson 51.28 CF%, 50.98 FF%, 53.59 XG%
Not sure where this analytical star Nurse is, but hey, you found a list someone on the internet made which supported your bad take.
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Yeah Nurse has never been a good analytics guy. That was a poorly played double down.
Andersson has some bad actual results, but his underlying numbers suggest he's had some bad fortune and is actually progressing great.
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02-11-2020, 04:36 PM
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#163
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: 1000 miles from nowhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
I’ve never seen Nurse do anything that made me think “I’d like that guy on my team.”
Zero times.
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I actually don’t mind Nurse. I do think that he brings some grid to their d core, something that is still needed in today’s game. If you didn’t have that type of player for your top 4, he wouldn’t be a terrible pick up.
I don’t like the contract, mostly because of the term. Maybe 3 or 4 more years at that cap hit is more team friendly.
I am not a big “fancy stats” guy. I do think they have merit, lots of merit actually but I am just not up-to-date on most of that stuff.
Fancy stats or no fancy stats there is no way I am trading Anderson for Nurse (maybe homerism). And there certainly no way I am trading Monahan for Nurse.
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02-11-2020, 04:37 PM
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#164
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Here is the skinny on Andersson vs Nurse this season.
Possession Stats:
CF/60 - even
CA/60 - Andersson
CF% - Andersson
Shots For/60 - Even
Shots Vs/60 - Andersson
Shots% - Andersson
Goals For/60 - Nurse
Goals Vs/60 - Andersson
Goals % - Nurse
(Andersson gives up 1.2 Goal/60 less than Nurse, but has only put up 1.51 Goals For/60 vs Nurse' 3.06 Goals/60. The puck just isn't going in)
xGF60 - Nurse slight edge (2.49 to 2.32)
xGA60 - Andersson by more than half a goal
xGF% - Andersson not close
High Danger For 60 - Nurse
High Danger Vs60 - Andersson
HD Splits - Andersson (not close)
The only thing that Nurse has on Andersson is some puck luck when he's on the ice into the opposition cage ...
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02-11-2020, 04:58 PM
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#165
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Think you mean "nowhere near".
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yes, nowhere near
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02-11-2020, 07:51 PM
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#166
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Park Hyatt Tokyo
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Everytime the Oilers get scored on in hilarious "this guy scored" fashion I always check who was on D and it's always either Nurse/Bear, Klefbom/Larsson or Benning/Russell.
Wouldn't want any of em.
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02-12-2020, 07:11 AM
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#167
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CP's Fraser Crane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topfiverecords
Everytime the Oilers get scored on in hilarious "this guy scored" fashion I always check who was on D and it's always either Nurse/Bear, Klefbom/Larsson or Benning/Russell.
Wouldn't want any of em.
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This is a weird thing to say.
Everytime I check on the Flames getting scored on there’s a defenseman on the ice.
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02-12-2020, 10:26 AM
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#168
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Here is the skinny on Andersson vs Nurse this season.
Possession Stats:
CF/60 - even
CA/60 - Andersson
CF% - Andersson
Shots For/60 - Even
Shots Vs/60 - Andersson
Shots% - Andersson
Goals For/60 - Nurse
Goals Vs/60 - Andersson
Goals % - Nurse
(Andersson gives up 1.2 Goal/60 less than Nurse, but has only put up 1.51 Goals For/60 vs Nurse' 3.06 Goals/60. The puck just isn't going in)
xGF60 - Nurse slight edge (2.49 to 2.32)
xGA60 - Andersson by more than half a goal
xGF% - Andersson not close
High Danger For 60 - Nurse
High Danger Vs60 - Andersson
HD Splits - Andersson (not close)
The only thing that Nurse has on Andersson is some puck luck when he's on the ice into the opposition cage ...
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Source please.
Does High Dnger Vs60 mean that Andersson has less high danger chances against?
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Nurse plays 19:00 / game 5on 5 Andersson plays 16:08
Nurse gets 51.5 % OZ starts Andersson gets 58.3
Nurse on ice shooting % is 9.1 Andersson 4.6 The whole team is "unlucky" when Andersson is on the ice (or the shots are just not that creative or good)
On Ice GF % for Nurse is only 46.9 but is better than Andersson's 39.6
Individual shot attempts /60 Nurse 13.75 Andersson 9.13
Nurse kills penalties 1:56 /gm #3 on the Oilers Andersson :30/g, #7 on the Flames.
Andersson get 1:35/gm on the pp Nurse only :50/game
Nurse has 4 goals and 20 assists 24 pts Andersson despite his heavy weighted OZ starts and extra PP time has 4 goal and 12 assists.
Source NHL.com
Andersson and Hanifin seem to be a better players without Gio on the roster similar to Brodie wideman and Russell when Gio was hurt in 2015.
Maybe Gio's brilliance and the coaches supreme confidence in him suppresses other opportunities.
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02-12-2020, 10:34 AM
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#169
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
Source please.
Does High Dnger Vs60 mean that Andersson has less high danger chances against?
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Nurse plays 19:00 / game 5on 5 Andersson plays 16:08
Nurse gets 51.5 % OZ starts Andersson gets 58.3
Nurse on ice shooting % is 9.1 Andersson 4.6 The whole team is "unlucky" when Andersson is on the ice (or the shots are just not that creative or good)
On Ice GF % for Nurse is only 46.9 but is better than Andersson's 39.6
Individual shot attempts /60 Nurse 13.75 Andersson 9.13
Nurse kills penalties 1:56 /gm #3 on the Oilers Andersson :30/g, #7 on the Flames.
Andersson get 1:35/gm on the pp Nurse only :50/game
Nurse has 4 goals and 20 assists 24 pts Andersson despite his heavy weighted OZ starts and extra PP time has 4 goal and 12 assists.
Source NHL.com
Andersson and Hanifin seem to be a better players without Gio on the roster similar to Brodie wideman and Russell when Gio was hurt in 2015.
Maybe Gio's brilliance and the coaches supreme confidence in him suppresses other opportunities.
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It's all from NaturalStatTrick
HD vs/60 is high danger chances against as a rate per 60 minutes of five on five play, which normalizes the ice time.
The Flames in general have had terrible, arguably unsustainable five on five shooting percentage this year affecting everybody. Some players though have good expected results meaning they are generating way more than they're giving up but not getting the results.
Nurse has a higher degree of competition, but is also hugely advantaged by playing almost half his time with McDavid this year as well.
Not many categories where Nurse looks better than Andersson, which was my point.
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02-12-2020, 11:14 AM
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#170
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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Still don't understand why you sign this contract if you are the Oilers. If you can't eat up UFA years when a guy is this close to the UFA then just go year to year. I just don't see any value in signing this contract from an Oilers stand point unless you expect his value to just skyrocket in the next couple of months.
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02-12-2020, 12:06 PM
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#171
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Park Hyatt Tokyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stang
This is a weird thing to say.
Everytime I check on the Flames getting scored on there’s a defenseman on the ice.
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Rarely in "this guy scored" fashion. E=NG
Look at the amazing work by Nurse and Bear.
Last edited by topfiverecords; 02-12-2020 at 12:08 PM.
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02-12-2020, 12:50 PM
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#172
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Norm!
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Nurse in his own end reminds me of the vibrating players in that old football game spinning around.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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02-12-2020, 01:12 PM
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#173
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss
Still don't understand why you sign this contract if you are the Oilers. If you can't eat up UFA years when a guy is this close to the UFA then just go year to year. I just don't see any value in signing this contract from an Oilers stand point unless you expect his value to just skyrocket in the next couple of months.
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The Flames have locked in Tkachuk's last 2 RFA years @ 9M Minimum
Bruins have the last 2 RFA year of Mcavoy at 7.3M
Shark's have Meier's last RFA year at 10M
Make Nurse's last 2 RFA years at 5.6 seem like a bargain basement.
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02-12-2020, 01:15 PM
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#174
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Commie Referee
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Small town, B.C.
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Ricardo, those players you listed are all much better than Nurse. Of course they’re going to make more.
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02-12-2020, 01:17 PM
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#175
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
The Flames have locked in Tkachuk's last 2 RFA years @ 9M Minimum
Bruins have the last 2 RFA year of Mcavoy at 7.3M
Shark's have Meier's last RFA year at 10M
Make Nurse's last 2 RFA years at 5.6 seem like a bargain basement.
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Hahaha Nurse isn't even in the same class as those players.
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02-12-2020, 01:21 PM
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#176
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Park Hyatt Tokyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
The Flames have locked in Tkachuk's last 2 RFA years @ 9M Minimum
Bruins have the last 2 RFA year of Mcavoy at 7.3M
Shark's have Meier's last RFA year at 10M
Make Nurse's last 2 RFA years at 5.6 seem like a bargain basement.
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One of these things is not like the others.
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02-12-2020, 01:21 PM
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#177
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topfiverecords
Rarely in "this guy scored" fashion. E=NG
Look at the amazing work by Nurse and Bear.
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Patrick Kane hardly ever makes any defenseman look bad?
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02-12-2020, 01:42 PM
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#178
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
Patrick Kane hardly ever makes any defenseman look bad?
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Can you just tell us what you're trying to accomplish so we can help you out with it?
Nurse is the best?
Nurse is one of the best?
Nurse is better than most of Calgary's defensemen?
Because I think we've patiently answered the questions of value based on a lot of numbers, and they suggest he's more of a 5 guy than a 3 and he's getting paid to be a 2/3.
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02-12-2020, 01:47 PM
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#179
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Park Hyatt Tokyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
Patrick Kane hardly ever makes any defenseman look bad?
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Darnell Nurse hardly ever makes any forward look bad?
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02-12-2020, 02:04 PM
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#180
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
The Flames have locked in Tkachuk's last 2 RFA years @ 9M Minimum
Bruins have the last 2 RFA year of Mcavoy at 7.3M
Shark's have Meier's last RFA year at 10M
Make Nurse's last 2 RFA years at 5.6 seem like a bargain basement.
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Why are you using the real amount and not the cap hit? What you are also not understanding is all those players are still under team control when it expire. Nurse is walked right to UFA.
McAvoy is 4.9M
Tkachuk is 7.0M
Meier is 6.0M
Doesn't matter what the final year is because all these players are the calibre player that they will be earning around what it would take to qualify them when their current contract expires. Expires with the team still having control.
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