[PGT] Oilers 8 Flames 3 everything is fine

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

So Neal is a $5million good luck charm?

It's possible that he's a vocal presence in the locker room.

I wish we had traded Neal for at least a right handed shot like Okposo though.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Your position assumes that Lucic is a worse asset.
I don't believe that to be true
Both players are awful NHLers. Hot start aside, Neal is back to being the same player he was here.
I disagree with many of your stated assumptions.

Are you actually suggesting expansion proof NMC 4 goal lucic is not a worse asset than 19 goal no trade restriction Neal?

[Jiri Hrdina]

I'm saying they are both terrible assets.
There contracts make them both untradeable. And I do believe that there is already an arrangement with Lucic such that the expansion issue isn't an issue.
As for Neal's 19 goals - look at his more recent production and performance.
He's the same guy he was here. Which is a terrible hockey player.
Both are.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Problem is that Neal is a winner. Winning follows him around. It can't be disputed. He's not the reason the Oilers have turned but he's played a role in their turnaround. He's not the reason the Flames won the western conference last season but he was a part of it and played a role just as he did going to the finals in successive seasons with different teams prior. The fact that he didn't get along with Peters now kind of make sense seeing few players liked playing for him. In return be brought in a loser. The same guy that checked out on the Oilers accepted losing has brought his act to Calgary. Was there was anyone in Alberta less enthused about the BOA than Lucic? The only reason Treliving took on that albatross of a contract is that he thought Lucic would be that physical presence that steps up for the skilled guys yet we saw Tkachuk, Monahan, Talbot, etc scrap this week and Lucic was nowhere to be found. I have never, ever been more disgusted in a player than I am in this guy. Total fraud as he should be ashamed of himself for collecting over $5 million on that contract. James Neal has taken a lot of flack and some of it deservingly so but at least he still wants to be part of a winner while Lucic is just playing out the string collecting a pay cheque.

Come on now, Neal wasn't a part of anything positive with the Flames...not sure if you noticed but Neal wasn't playing last night or Friday. Probably the Oilers best two games of the season.

Not to defend Lucic, the Flames should have bought Neal out or just waited it out longer, retained salary ect.

The Flames only prayer is that Lucic's actual money is mostly paid. Hopefully there is a team looking to hit the cap floor at some point.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Neal is -21. Unless he is on the power play, he is generally hurting the team.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Is there any evidence on this? I hear this all the time but where is this reported?

They mention it on 960 often.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Weitz

They mention it on 960 often.

Those guys fill a lot of time talking about stuff they don’t know much about

Bless their efforts

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'm saying they are both terrible assets.
There contracts make them both untradeable. And I do believe that there is already an arrangement with Lucic such that the expansion issue isn't an issue.
As for Neal's 19 goals - look at his more recent production and performance.
He's the same guy he was here. Which is a terrible hockey player.
Both are.

his most recent performance is 3g 3a in his last 10 games?

Lucic has 1g 1a in his last 10...

Ok, setting aside how ludicrous I think this opinion is, your argument here is that best case scenario, Treliving has made a 5 million dollar long term mistake and hasn't fixed it in 18 months?

That's the best possible outcome? That's the mitigating factor for trelivings body of work of buyout owrthy free agent signings?

Somehow I believe you wouldn't be nearly as forgiving were it Jim Benning or Peter Chiarelli buying out their third signing and dealing for a contract you and many others on this board saw as maybe the worst contract in the league before it landed in Calgary.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Until the Flames ownership group is willing to open the pocket books and allow Tre to go ahead and hire a coach that wants a bigger salary. We'll be stuck with the bargain bin coaches.

His hands are tied IMO.

I do not think this ownership group is cheap in that sense. I think the advantage of hiring a below the radar coach is that you maintain your influence and control with the ownership group. From a self-preservation perspective it is in Trelivings best interest to avoid Laviolette or Gallant. They have actually won in the nhl and I suspect that their voice may carry more weight with the people that actually matter to BT, that being Murray Edwards and the rest of the ownership group. I think BT has learned the Craig Button lesson well, do not hire a coach that is so credible that the ownership group may listen to them more than they listen to you.

Flames ownership spent top dollar on Darryl and Brent Sutter as coaches. I bet they would be willing to spend top dollar on the next coach as well.

[Toonage]

What further evidence is required that the Flames won't hire a high profile coach than the fact that they, you know, haven't?

Every opportunity presented has seen them go with the cheaper or less experienced option.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Come on now, Neal wasn't a part of anything positive with the Flames...not sure if you noticed but Neal wasn't playing last night or Friday. Probably the Oilers best two games of the season.

Not to defend Lucic, the Flames should have bought Neal out or just waited it out longer, retained salary ect.

The Flames only prayer is that Lucic's actual money is mostly paid. Hopefully there is a team looking to hit the cap floor at some point.

I think everyone realizes this was what needed to be done but for some inexplicable reason it didn't happen. It's kind of ironic that the main reason the trade happened was that Peters and Neal couldn't co-exist together with the Flames and a mere 28 games later neither man is a part of the Flames organization.

[Mattman]

Just saying, even though Neal didn't meet standards and expectations last season the Flames were a 107 point team.
And in a world where the Flames swapped him with Lucic, they are on pace for 92 points.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I do not think this ownership group is cheap in that sense. I think the advantage of hiring a below the radar coach is that you maintain your influence and control with the ownership group. From a self-preservation perspective it is in Trelivings best interest to avoid Laviolette or Gallant. They have actually won in the nhl and I suspect that their voice may carry more weight with the people that actually matter to BT, that being Murray Edwards and the rest of the ownership group. I think BT has learned the Craig Button lesson well, do not hire a coach that is so credible that the ownership group may listen to them more than they listen to you.

Flames ownership spent top dollar on Darryl and Brent Sutter as coaches. I bet they would be willing to spend top dollar on the next coach as well.

Treliving saw first hand in Phoenix when a respected head coach wins a power struggle with a GM and it sure looks to me like he's gone out of his way in Calgary to avoid hiring experienced and respected coaches that may have roster preferences and their own ideas about what's required to win in today's NHL.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Just saying, even though Neal didn't meet standards and expectations last season the Flames were a 107 point team.
And in a world where the Flames swapped him with Lucic, they are on pace for 92 points.

How about Giordano playing like human excrement offensively the whole season? It's been pretty pathetic and I doubt he'll ever get it back.

Add to the fact our "coach" keeps putting him in offensive situations. Wake the eff up!

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Just saying, even though Neal didn't meet standards and expectations last season the Flames were a 107 point team.
And in a world where the Flames swapped him with Lucic, they are on pace for 92 points.

Just saying, even though I ate a box of Oreos every week last year, I still lost 10 lbs. In a world where I swapped the Oreos for carrots, I actually gained 5 lbs. Clearly Oreos are my good luck charm for losing weight ��

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

his most recent performance is 3g 3a in his last 10 games?

Lucic has 1g 1a in his last 10...

Ok, setting aside how ludicrous I think this opinion is, your argument here is that best case scenario, Treliving has made a 5 million dollar long term mistake and hasn't fixed it in 18 months?

That's the best possible outcome? That's the mitigating factor for trelivings body of work of buyout owrthy free agent signings?

Somehow I believe you wouldn't be nearly as forgiving were it Jim Benning or Peter Chiarelli buying out their third signing and dealing for a contract you and many others on this board saw as maybe the worst contract in the league before it landed in Calgary.

I don't now how I'm being forgiving. I've stated Neal was a mistake. And a bad enough mistake that, unless the owners were ok buying him out, the Lucic deal, or one like it was the only possible choice.

But well done making sure your look at recent performance includes Neal's only decent game in the last 20.

Last 20 games, 10 points, including 4 in one game. Excluding that game he has 6 points in his last 19.

He is what he is.

[GullFoss]

Someone should ask Treliving why he only hires loser coaches

[Ashasx]

My fear with replacing Treliving is that there are far more bad GMs in this league than good. I think of Treliving as an intelligent manager, but one who has also made every mistake a GM can make along the way.

I think it likely gets worse here if we swap managers. I just hope Treliving has run out of mistakes to learn from.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Toonage

What further evidence is required that the Flames won't hire a high profile coach than the fact that they, you know, haven't?

Every opportunity presented has seen them go with the cheaper or less experienced option.

Every opportunity under treliving. They hired the expensive coaches under Button and Sutter. Feaster only had one hire and he hired a Stanley cup champion.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't now how I'm being forgiving. I've stated Neal was a mistake. And a bad enough mistake that, unless the owners were ok buying him out, the Lucic deal, or one like it was the only possible choice.

But well done making sure your look at recent performance includes Neal's only decent game in the last 20.

Well, an example.of.yiu bring forgiving might be removing Neal's most productive game.to narrow the playing field between the two players. To be fair we should subtract Lucic's most productive game as well?

I dunno man, I was being charitable, because if you want to use 20 games as the standard...lucic has 1 more point in his last 20 than he does in his last 10, for a total of 3

He is what he is.

Ya, as bad as he is he is still better than lucic.