[PGT] Oilers 8 Flames 3 everything is fine

[I_H8_Crawford]

Tre should be fired if he a) sticks with Ward without even talking to the good established coaches out there or b) hires another "fresh face" loser ala GG

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

If you’re taking the time to read this forum, become a member of the forum and post on it, you’re probably not a “bandwagon” fan.

Using the bandwagon monicker is ridiculously lazy. If you can think of reasons why people expressing their frustrations over this team are wrong, take the effort to articulate them rather than churn out a lazy, mean nothing to the people who post here, moniker.

This isn’t “1 game”.

A minus 17 goal differential and 15 regulation wins in 53 games played, the Colorado series, the fact that we are 11 points down on the same point last season despite getting 6 points from shootout wins this season tells us all, this is more than about “one game”.

This is who our team is.

I agree with you, but this goes both ways. And this isn't directed at any particular poster.

I get that emotions are high in these games, and I get that a loss like this makes you want to vent. While I think that's useful to an extent, it gets really tiring, unhealthy, and ridiculous without a modicum of control and careful thought. The Flames have already won the season series, and to me have shown to be the better overall team than their rivals to the north. That isn't to say there aren't glaring weaknesses that, IMO, make it highly unlikely Calgary survives a first round playoff series, if they make it that far.

Constantly tossing out "player XYZ is garbage", "trade them for anything you can", "blow it up", "I hate personality XYZ", etc and whatnot is constant low quality regurgitation that serves no outwardly purpose than a silly reactionary outburst. The direct attacks on other board members and the constant re-packaged ax-grinding for a specific player/coach is the same blend of BS. And the repeated teeth gnashing and seeking validation from the play-by-play team, analysts, and every corner of the media often reads like a Trump rally.

We're cheering for the same team, but we have different approaches, opinions, and perspectives. If you expect quality, give quality; the discussions are there to be had when you think and offer more than "embarrassing take".

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I do. Maintain consistency within the higher ranks. I think when you look at the body of work overall, he's proven to be a solid GM.
I stick with him.

I kind of disagree. He's the man at the top and he's fully responsible for the mess this roster has become. Treliving is a 4th line grinder of GM's. He busts his ass off as nobody works harder but at the end of the day the talent isn't there. He you could put a schmuck in a lineup of HOF coaches and he would chose the schmuck to coach his team. He has no clue what a good NHL coach looks like. No clue at all. Nor does he know what a good NHL defenseman looks like. He's overpaid guys like Engelland and Stone way overpaid in trades for Hamonic, and Hanafin. The defense group is just a mess and last night was exhibit A on just how bad some of these defenders are as the only good ones are the ones he inherited and a guy they lucked out on with a 2nd round pick in Andersson. Don't even get me started on free agency but he's responsible for two of the all time worst free agent signings in the history of the organization to which he doubled down and parlayed into the softest big man in the NHL in Lucic.

He's a mediocre GM that's build a team that mirrors his talents as a GM. He will probably get fleeced in a deal for a rental like Kreider who will never, ever sign with a Canadian club and in the offseason he will probably take the interim tag off Ward and give him the job despite it being evident to all but him that Ward is a good assistant coach and just not head coach material. We just have to wait a few more seasons of mediocrity until Flames ownership is willing to eat the last year on his contract and fire him and start the process all over again. Make no mistake Brad Treliving is a less cocky version of Jay Feaster as every good move is counteracted with a bad move hence the team being mired in mediocrity.

[Flash Walken]

I just can't take the argument seriously that Lucic is somehow a mitigating factor or not a huge mistake in his own right and that you can't count his acquisition as a separate screw up because Neal was already such a collosal screw up.

How does that jive? Treliving made such a big mistake that his only way out of it was to acquire a player with even less value and a substantially more problematic career trajectory and cap hit?

It's very impressive spin, I have to say. Very creative accounting.

The flames still have a 5 million dollar 4th line hole and no answers in the top 6.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

He just signed an extension less than 6 months ago. That doesn't sound like a guy near the end of his rope.

While I certainly don't have any idea what ownership thinks of Treliving specifically, I don't think people signing extensions means anything any more. We're starting to see more and more people under the gun get extended anyway just to get fired shortly into their new deal.


It seems to be becoming a thing that you extend the guy even if you think he's not a long term option.

[Jiri Hrdina]

If you want to actually debate something I'm in.
But I have no desire to do so with someone who already describes my position as "spin".

[DeluxeMoustache]

The team came out flat letting the Oilers score two easy goals off the hop. Then outshot 49-26 including 24-7 in the second period. I know Talbot saw most of the second period load. That kind of D is something no goalie should have to deal with.

How can a team with so much talent be so bad?

I am on the train that says the coach isn’t working. So many mind boggling decisions he has made. Not this game but last, trying Derek Ryan on the wing with Johnny and Monny. Seeing Johnny dump it in so that Derek Ryan can go retrieve it? Obviously makes the third line C position worse to create an ineffective winger.

Buddy Robinson ... top 6? I know he scored, but are you kidding me?

They are getting shredded with the opponents reading the wide D to D nonsense. Buying themselves time and space where nothing is happening anyway, having a plodding transition, and letting the opponent get prepared.

Gaudreau has skill but sure looked like he has checked out last night. I’m not sure what is going on there. To be honest, I saw a pretty good effort defensively the previous game against the Oil. I don’t think he wants to do that game in and game out though.

I’m back and forth, but somewhat supportive of trading him. Something changed around the last all star break and it has been over a year now. Even the way the organization is going about things seems different. You see a lot less of them pumping his tires, you see a lot less of Guy, and Johnny just has that dead eye look and looks like is going through the motions.

He somehow has put up 11 points in his last 12, so it’s tough to say he needs press box time, but man, he looks emotionally as flat as a pancake.

Back to coaching though, I’m not sure if he is deciding to skate in to 3 guys on his own and ignore his teammates, or whether they are purposely letting him go with it and seeing what he can create. It clearly is deliberately the plan for PP entries, and it is a pretty lousy plan.

And then it makes poor Johnny sad and frustrated when he loses the puck. He decides to put his effort in to executing a bad idea and gets upset and discouraged

I think the coaches and Johnny maybe need to watch footage of Patrick Kane and even Mitch Marner to see what guys with that similar type of skill set are doing to be successful all the time. I remember a few years ago seeing Kane curling around from behind the net and cutting to the front around the hash marks, and Johnny seemingly noticing and emulating. Nowadays he really stays outside, and stubbornly tries that stupid high short side bad angle shot that basically never works any more. Man, he is frustrating to watch. So much potential being pissed away

[1_Flames_Fan]

I hope the media calls Lucic out for his dog#### play during all these BOA games. The Calgary fans had embraced him with open arms and he #### all over us. Do your ####in job and run Nurse through the boards or feed him some teeth. Then buy him dinner or blend him up a pasta smoothie cause of his broken jaw. What ####in team do you play for? Absolutely ####in embarrassing!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Not really. As has been outlined in the past - the mistake wasn't Lucic. The mistake was Neal. The team seemed intent on moving on from him, and for whatever reason a buyout wasn't an option. So the only way to move him was to bring back a similarly bad contract.
All makes sense to me.
Again the mistake was Neal.
Also noting he signed his extension AFTER the Lucic deal.

Problem is that Neal is a winner. Winning follows him around. It can't be disputed. He's not the reason the Oilers have turned but he's played a role in their turnaround. He's not the reason the Flames won the western conference last season but he was a part of it and played a role just as he did going to the finals in successive seasons with different teams prior. The fact that he didn't get along with Peters now kind of make sense seeing few players liked playing for him. In return be brought in a loser. The same guy that checked out on the Oilers accepted losing has brought his act to Calgary. Was there was anyone in Alberta less enthused about the BOA than Lucic? The only reason Treliving took on that albatross of a contract is that he thought Lucic would be that physical presence that steps up for the skilled guys yet we saw Tkachuk, Monahan, Talbot, etc scrap this week and Lucic was nowhere to be found. I have never, ever been more disgusted in a player than I am in this guy. Total fraud as he should be ashamed of himself for collecting over $5 million on that contract. James Neal has taken a lot of flack and some of it deservingly so but at least he still wants to be part of a winner while Lucic is just playing out the string collecting a pay cheque.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If you want to actually debate something I'm in.
But I have no desire to do so with someone who already describes my position as "spin".

Jiri, how is acquiring a worse toxic asset not a separate, calculable mis step?

Neal is the original mistake, yes. Adding Lucic, who today has significantly less value than Neal, is a separate, awful mistake.

The flames are in a worse position today with Lucic than the oilers are with Neal.

Actively improving the chief team rival.

That is a mistake, filed under a different heading than the Neal mistake.

[3rd liner]

Originally Posted by stang

Pretty ridiculous take. Gagner pokes at a loose puck just as the ref lost sight and blew it down. Pretty much at the same time.

I’m not even going to comment on the Lucic should take a suspension except to say cmon. It’s a game, and you won the season series.

According to Talbot that was a spear while he was down. But, to be fair, it was a fast play like you said. But add in Gagner's flying launch from last game though... little Sam just needs a reminder he is now a fourth line depth guy, not a Rinaldo type who just runs around hitting guys.

As for Lucic as you are an Oilers fan I am sure you can understand my frustration with the guy. You guys smashed us last night , not even close. That wasn't my issue. But to have your 'physical deterrent' do nothing at all in two games- no statement made at all. 6 million a year. Doesn't need to take a suspension, that might have been the beer talking... Just for Lucic to show some goddamn physicality and emotion. Angry faces on the bench don't count.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

Tre should be fired if he a) sticks with Ward without even talking to the good established coaches out there or b) hires another "fresh face" loser ala GG

Until the Flames ownership group is willing to open the pocket books and allow Tre to go ahead and hire a coach that wants a bigger salary. We'll be stuck with the bargain bin coaches.

His hands are tied IMO.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Jiri, how is acquiring a worse toxic asset not a separate, calculable mis step?

Neal is the original mistake, yes. Adding Lucic, who today has significantly less value than Neal, is a separate, awful mistake.

The flames are in a worse position today with Lucic than the oilers are with Neal.

Actively improving the chief team rival.

That is a mistake, filed under a different heading than the Neal mistake.

Your position assumes that Lucic is a worse asset.
I don't believe that to be true
Both players are awful NHLers. Hot start aside, Neal is back to being the same player he was here.
I disagree with many of your stated assumptions.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Jiri, how is acquiring a worse toxic asset not a separate, calculable mis step?

Neal is the original mistake, yes. Adding Lucic, who today has significantly less value than Neal, is a separate, awful mistake.

The flames are in a worse position today with Lucic than the oilers are with Neal.

Actively improving the chief team rival.

That is a mistake, filed under a different heading than the Neal mistake.

He essentially doused a fire with gasoline when he made that trade. There's no defending it. As with the Phaneuf trade history will not be kind at all to this move.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Until the Flames ownership group is willing to open the pocket books and allow Tre to go ahead and hire a coach that wants a bigger salary. We'll be stuck with the bargain bin coaches.

His hands are tied IMO.

Is there any evidence on this? I hear this all the time but where is this reported?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

Agreed.

The goal is the win the Stanley Cup. Not to just razzle dazzle in the regular season.

Can anyone honestly see Johnny surviving 4 brutal rounds?

...and I’m a Johnny Hockey fan.

On the right team I can see Johnny being a big contributor during the regular season in a second line role and being a great support guy during a playoff run. He isn't the guy that can step up and carry a team on his back through the playoffs like the Flames need. Either the Flames find a way of adding that necessary piece while putting Johnny in his proper role (highly unlikely option) or the Flames utilize Johnny as a trading piece in order to fill that gap.

[zamler]

Lucic didn't want to be hard on his buddy buddy Oiler friends so he did nothing. I can't think of a more disgraceful performance.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by zamler

Do you think Tre has earned the right to fix the team he built?

No. Treliving has had three or four years to build a strong team around the core that he was putting together (Johnny, Monahan, Gio, Brodie.) He has tried to fill the roster but hasn't done so effectively. He is done at the end of the season and/or once the Flames are eliminated from playoff contention.

[DeluxeMoustache]

What is frustrating about Lucic is that even if all of the Oilers skaters are his buddies, he was happy to mix it up with Smith when he was an Oiler and Smith was a Flame. At least try to save some face by doing that.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Problem is that Neal is a winner. Winning follows him around. It can't be disputed. He's not the reason the Oilers have turned but he's played a role in their turnaround. He's not the reason the Flames won the western conference last season but he was a part of it and played a role just as he did going to the finals in successive seasons with different teams prior. The fact that he didn't get along with Peters now kind of make sense seeing few players liked playing for him. In return be brought in a loser. The same guy that checked out on the Oilers accepted losing has brought his act to Calgary. Was there was anyone in Alberta less enthused about the BOA than Lucic? The only reason Treliving took on that albatross of a contract is that he thought Lucic would be that physical presence that steps up for the skilled guys yet we saw Tkachuk, Monahan, Talbot, etc scrap this week and Lucic was nowhere to be found. I have never, ever been more disgusted in a player than I am in this guy. Total fraud as he should be ashamed of himself for collecting over $5 million on that contract. James Neal has taken a lot of flack and some of it deservingly so but at least he still wants to be part of a winner while Lucic is just playing out the string collecting a pay cheque.

So Neal is a $5million good luck charm?

I rather have Lucic than Neal on this team. That said both are terrible.

The only thing i want from NEal is to come back and get 2 more goals. I don't think its a slam dunk he will do it. If Edmonton grabs a top 6 player at the deadline, Neal is back on the bottom 6 and off the 1st pp unit.