...If I were a Flames fan I'd be happy to have Tkachuk on the team. That's because he's an elite forward and you can't just go out and get a new one from the elite forward supermarket, unless you are the Rangers. At the same time I'd still think he plays like an idiot and I'd be rooting for him to turn down the antics...
I think he has though, hasn’t he? Tkachuk was suspended twice in his rookie season, but I don’t recall any League discipline since then. And while he plays on the edge, agitates opposing players and will from time to time make a questionable hit, I never get the sense that he is a reckless or dangerous player. Unlike Marchand, Perry or Nazem Kadri who all have a history of willfully injuring other players I don’t see Tkachuk ever doing stupid things like this—not since his dirty elbow on Doughty. And he has never caused wilful damage like that moron Darnell Nurse did when he attacked Roman Polak, or like what Kassian did on Saturday night.
Tkachuk is still a damn easy player to cheer for. And so long as his really keen sense of where the line is from one game to the next doesn’t change, then he will continue to be a really easy guy to cheer for.
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I think he has though, hasn’t he? Tkachuk was suspended twice in his rookie season, but I don’t recall any League discipline since then. And while he plays on the edge, agitates opposing players and will from time to time make a questionable hit, I never get the sense that he is a reckless or dangerous player. Unlike Marchand, Perry or Nazem Kadri who all have a history of willfully injuring other players I don’t see Tkachuk ever doing stupid things like this—not since his dirty elbow on Doughty. And he has never caused wilful damage like that moron Darnell Nurse did when he attacked Roman Polak, or like what Kassian did on Saturday night.
Tkachuk is still a damn easy player to cheer for. And so long as his really keen sense of where the line is from one game to the next doesn’t change, then he will continue to be a really easy guy to cheer for.
His two suspensions are even questionable - one was for the little poke with his stick when a Red Wing was pummeling a helpless and prone Hamonic in the corridor, IRRC. The elbow on Doughty - I remain of the opinion he was trying to do his usual backwards bump, like Forsberg used to do, and his elbow just got too high. I'm not sure he meant to elbow Doughty in the face.
In contrast, look at what Kasian/Bertuzzi/Buff have done to unsuspecting or vulnerable players completely away from the play.
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I think he has though, hasn’t he? Tkachuk was suspended twice in his rookie season, but I don’t recall any League discipline since then. And while he plays on the edge, agitates opposing players and will from time to time make a questionable hit, I never get the sense that he is a reckless or dangerous player. Unlike Marchand, Perry or Nazem Kadri who all have a history of willfully injuring other players I don’t see Tkachuk ever doing stupid things like this—not since his dirty elbow on Doughty. And he has never caused wilful damage like that moron Darnell Nurse did when he attacked Roman Polak, or like what Kassian did on Saturday night.
Tkachuk is still a damn easy player to cheer for. And so long as his really keen sense of where the line is from one game to the next doesn’t change, then he will continue to be a really easy guy to cheer for.
Really?
The Tkachuk hits were in my opinion one of the most cowardly things you can do on a sheet of ice...
Predatory blindside hits to a player engaging with another player...
The type of hits the NFL has outlawed...
The type of hits that has an almost unanimous reaction from current and former players who think it was a dirty hit...
The turtle job was one for the ages, you gotta give Tkachuk credit for that...
Kassian's reaction and whether it was over the top is a totally different discussion..
But to say after this incident that Tkachuk is cleaning up his dirty play is comical...
The Tkachuk hits were in my opinion one of the most cowardly things you can do on a sheet of ice...
Predatory blindside hits to a player engaging with another player...
The type of hits the NFL has outlawed...
The type of hits that has an almost unanimous reaction from current and former players who think it was a dirty hit...
The turtle job was one for the ages, you gotta give Tkachuk credit for that...
Kassian's reaction and whether it was over the top is a totally different discussion..
But to say after this incident that Tkachuk is cleaning up his dirty play is comical...
You’re out in left field. Predatory? How are bodychecks not predatory? You’re aiming to physically remove a player from the puck which requires forethought and intent. You may not like the hit but it was clean by the rule book and there was no call on the ice or disciplinary action by the league later on. Sorry, but you’re wrong.
Turtle job? Why the hell would he ever fight Kassian? Haven’t we been over this a hundred times before in this thread? Kassian got played. Tkachuk suckered in the village idiot of Edmonton and as a result got a power play which setup the game winning goal. That’s genius.
You may not like Tkachuk’s game, but it’s not dirty.
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The first hit: Borderline but only because the position Kassian is in. Nothing that Tkachuk does here really screams terrible hit (doesn't launch, no elbow, most contact is made with his hip), and live at full speed the announcers didn't even mention it. But when you slow it down you see how vulnerable of a position Kassian is in with his head so low.
I get why the fan base doesn't like this one but really Kassian can't put himself in that position reaching for the puck like that in that area of the ice.
Second Hit: To me this is 100% clean. Shoulder to shoulder, he turns and glides into the hit, and he makes sure he comes from an angle so that it's not boarding. This hit looks way worse than it was because Kassian doesn't know how to tie up his chin strap.
Third Hit: The cleanest of the bunch. Hard, square, and really rocked Kassian. Great hit.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 01-14-2020 at 09:12 AM.
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As an aside my favourite part of this whole thing is that the Oilers fan base is so delusional that they actually love and are defending Zack Kassian now.
This guy was public enemy number 1.
He broke the first wunderkind's jaw (Gagner) and then taunted him for it the next time they met.
But now they are defending him as some angel and player that represents good clean hockey (along with Neal spouting off about respect).
The hypocrisy is what makes it so much fun to torment them.
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You’re out in left field. Predatory? How are bodychecks not predatory? You’re aiming to physically remove a player from the puck which requires forethought and intent. You may not like the hit but it was clean by the rule book and there was no call on the ice or disciplinary action by the league later on. Sorry, but you’re wrong.
Turtle job? Why the hell would he ever fight Kassian? Haven’t we been over this a hundred times before in this thread? Kassian got played. Tkachuk suckered in the village idiot of Edmonton and as a result got a power play which setup the game winning goal. That’s genius.
You may not like Tkachuk’s game, but it’s not dirty.
Consider me a parrot for the opinion of almost everyone inside the game who has spoken out...
It was dirty and it was cowardly and more importantly it was dangerous which is the reason the NFL took it out of their game...
On that the majority would agree...
On the Kassian reaction, I have mixed opinions...
On one hand I think Tkachuk deserved to be rag dolled and on the other hand I think it was excessive and deserved a game or two suspension...
I think the reason so many current and former players have spoken out against Tkachuk is that he wasn't penalized during or after the game and the players understand how dangerous his play was...
The first hit: Borderline but only because the position Kassian is in. Nothing that Tkachuk does here really screams terrible hit (doesn't launch, no elbow, most contact is made with his hip), and live at full speed the announcers didn't even mention it. But when you slow it down you see how vulnerable of a position Kassian is in with his head so low.
I get why the fan base doesn't like this one but really Kassian can't put himself in that position reaching for the puck like that in that area of the ice.
Second Hit: To me this is 100% clean. Shoulder to shoulder, he turns and glides into the hit, and he makes sure he comes from an angle that it's not boarding. This hit looks way worse than it was because Kassian doesn't know how to tie up his chin strap.
Third Hit: The cleanest of the bunch. Hard, square, and really rocked Kassian. Great hit.
Third hit was closer to a charge than the others because he kind of raced in. But all were clean. I agree that the only reason the first is even mentioned is because the Kassian defenders can't find anything to complain about on the hit that triggered him.
The stupid post above raises the stupid "You can't hit a player engaged with another" argument. Since when? It happens all the time - it's called outmanning the opponent.
As for turtling, like the NHL said, he was never given a chance to fight. I've seen the toughest goons "turtle" and cover up when they aren't in a position to actually defend themselves.
What's cowardly - making a hard legal check, following the play up ice and then covering up when attacked from behind? Or being hit hard, losing your temper and, instead of spinning the guy around and challenging him (like Tkachuk did to Dumba), grabbing him in a horsecollar tackle (illegal in the NFL), throwing him down dangerously and starting to swing before he even got a chance to get set. I thought Tootoo's fight with Iginla was punkish because he waded in before Iggy knew the fight was on and this is way worse.
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Engaging with another player? Where does this come from? In both hits, Kassian had control of the puck and was driving for the front of the net. If he was along the boards with Gio, I could maybe understand the outrage. That is not what happened. If MT does not make those hits the puck carrier is able to come out from behind the net and gets a scoring chance.
I see people thinking MT is a puke and has a punchable face. Sure. But is he a "dirty" player? He has not licked anyone, fish hooked anyone, pulled hair, bit hands, run from behind, on and on. He plays hard and is aggravating. That is not dirty.
This should have been a classic take his number and get him later scenario. That would be fair. Hit MT with a body check, that would be fair. Psych out attack with a horse collar? Crazy town.
Having said that, Boomer and Sarich think the punishment was adequate as it was 14 minutes in-game and the player was in the box when the GWG was scored. They think that was enough. I don't really agree with that but in that context, 2 games seem to be fine to me. Ryan Whitney also had a reasonable take on Spittin Chiclets, which I was surprised by. MT DOES NOT HAVE TO FIGHT. He should, but he does not need to. Both him and biz thought they were questionable hits as ZK does not expect a winger to be there. I don't really get this point but it is an interesting perspective. I guess I just think if you have the puck in the offensive zone, you should probably be expecting a hit.
I do wish the NHL had addressed the misogynist comment and the threats but hoping the NHL will do the right thing is a fool's errand.
I was also surprised to see that MT is 6'2" 205 and ZK is 6'3" 212. Pretty close actually.
The stupid post above raises the stupid "You can't hit a player engaged with another" argument. Since when? It happens all the time - it's called outmanning the opponent.
It's an NFL rule where they are trying to prevent guys launching into other players when they are already wrapped up.
People can't seem to keep their sports straight and are mixing up NHL and NFL rules.
Best part is most of Kassians big hits are when a guy is engaged with another player too.
Third Hit: The cleanest of the bunch. Hard, square, and really rocked Kassian. Great hit.
I've been looking for video of hit #3, just for my personal viewing pleasure (only saw it in-game, in a wide shot; never saw a replay). Anyone know if it's out there somewhere?
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I find the whole discussion kind of amazing. To me, Tkachuk’s hits were the epitome of “borderline”. They were the type of hits where most of the fans of the delivering team will see them as clean and the other team will see them as dirty. As a Flames fan, I lean towards clean, but it wouldn’t have surprised me if Tkachuk had been called for charging during the game. And I wouldn’t have been particularly upset about that call - at game speed I can definitely see how a ref would see a charge.
However, the fallout is unbelievable. These descriptions of “disgusting, predatory, vile” hits just don’t fit in my view. They were hard hits at the edge of what’s within the rules. An in-game penalty may have been appropriate, but these calls for lengthy suspensions for those hits? You might as well just ban hitting from the game altogether if that’s your viewpoint.
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I've been looking for video of hit #3, just for my personal viewing pleasure (only saw it in-game, in a wide shot; never saw a replay). Anyone know if it's out there somewhere?
I think what makes them appear 'predatory' is that they kind of are.
The play is developing from a mile away. Everyone in the arena and on TV can see that Kassian is about to get smashed. Kassian's teammates see he's about to get smashed. Blind dogs are howling for him to get his head up.
They aren't raffi torres hits where he is praying on a guy who doesn't know he's there and who doesn't have the puck. They aren't head shots where Tkachuk is targeting Kassian's head.
They are full body contact, shoulder to shoulder explosions from one guy able to read the play from a mile away against a guy who can't read the play with the help of an audio book.
They are predatory because Tkachuk is in a completely different league than Kassian. He's preying on this big goof literally every time he holds the puck for any extended time.
When you watch that video, is it any mystery at all what's about to happen when Kassian chips the puck in? Kassian was probably the only guy in the building surprised at what happened. They are all hockey plays. Kassian is in possession of the puck. Tkachuk Smashes him, Kassian loses possession and the Flames exit the zone. It's a quintessential hockey play. Use force to strip guy of puck to relieve dangerous possession near goalie.
Last edited by Flash Walken; 01-14-2020 at 09:41 AM.
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