63 Canadians killed after civilian airliner shot down.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Even unskilled anti-semites are good at cherry picking when it suits their narrative. A few recent examples:

1. When in a thread about a catastrophe committed by Iran it was legitimately suggested that the people of Iran might be better off today but for the 1979 revolution the clock of history was wound back specifically to the date of the “disastrous Balfour Declaration” which envisioned the creation of the modern State of Israel in the historic homeland of the Jewish people.

2. Apparently the 1947 UN partition plan which proposed two states, one Jewish and one Palestinian resulted in a “huge tract” of land being stolen from Palestinians. The 1948 armistice lines resulted in a country tiny in area compared to neighboring Arab territory.

3. If a Jewish state should have resulted from the Holocaust, which it seems from that poster is debatable, it certainly should not have been situated in biblical Israel.

4. Following the US action against the Iranian General, Iranian officials specifically stated that further action by the United States would result in attacks by Iran against Haifa and Tel-Aviv. Interesting that this seems totally irrelevant.

1. actually I posited Iran might have been better off if we hadn't conquered it in 1943 and overthrown its reasonably democratic regime, I made no comment about Balfour as regards Iran.

2. that the original border of Israel was smaller in '49 doesn't alter the fact that it was all taken from the Arabic inhabitants in the first place and therefore was bound to cause problems, if China decided that as there are a lot of Chinese people in Richmond and the lower mainland they were going to create a small Chinese country in BC we would be happy would we?

3. The only point I have made is the creation of Israel in the Middle East due to a crime committed in Europe by mainly Germans wasn't likely to make the local Palestinians happy about having their land taken, a resentment we are still dealing with to this day.

4. Trump has constantly threatened to reign hell on all kinds of people, most of us know it is just rhetoric, as it is when Iran threatens Israel.
Iran has thus far never attacked Israel except through its proxies, unlike Israel that has occasionally bombed Iran (for very good reason).

You and Peter assume that because I see a large reason for our problems in the region being our creation and support of Israel that I think we shouldn't have done either, this isn't true, I just see the result of us doing this as a reason we are attacked these days and I think if we are to find a way out of this mess we have to be honest about this.

[Manhattanboy]

You ended your post about “us” conquering Iran with a specific reference to the disaster that was the Balfour Declaration.

And interesting in your ongoing rants about the creation Israel you make no mention of the history of the Jewish people in the area and their ties to that territory particularly.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

You ended your post about “us” conquering Iran with a specific reference to the disaster that was the Balfour Declaration.

And interesting in your ongoing rants about the creation Israel you make no mention of the history of the Jewish people in the area and their ties to that territory particularly.

could you quote it, I am having difficulty scrolling back trying to work out which one we are referring to.

[Manhattanboy]

At Flames game so will do later....

[_Q_]

I see nothing anti semitic about afc's post. First this claiming anti semitism anytime Israel is mentioned in a negative light is becoming a bit of a meme. All countries are subject to criticism, full-stop. There is enough language in this thread about both the US and Iran that would constitute islamophobia or anti-whateverism if it were held to the same standards Israel is. Second, afc isn't even criticizing Israel. He's just pointing out that Muslims hate the west because of the creation of Israel. Whether or not they have a right to exist, isn't being debated by afc. It's the same way that one can state that the indigenous communities of Canada, or the US have a hate for the federal government.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

At Flames game so will do later....

Thanks, not denying I posted it just cant seem to find it, enjoy the game.

[Muta]

Lots of Iranian anger right now at their government. Check out the following Reddit post in the 'worldnews' sub-Reddit titled: Protesters in Iran are demanding that Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei steps down, after the country's military admitted to accidentally downing a Ukrainian passenger jet, killing all 176 people on board

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/c...preme/fdxwb52/

Definitely an interesting read from an Iranian perspective, including subsequent posts.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by peter12

The levels of leniency in this thread for a revolutionary jihadist regime which has wrecked untold damage to the treasure and lives of our citizens and allies is truly disgusting.

This is Iran, and its oppression of women.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49646879

Now I'll contrast. I applied to visit last winter, as a snowboard trip instead of Japan. The most educated middle eastern country (less Israel), the Takht-e Suleyman range, and a convincing soccer teammate;...

I have a girl pal, that's still doing the pro snowboarding thing, with quite a brand for herself. I broached the idea to her, despite a global sponsor that would endorse/budget, and she said hell no.

And then my VISA was rejected and that's that.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Muta

Lots of Iranian anger right now at their government. Check out the following Reddit post in the 'worldnews' sub-Reddit titled: Protesters in Iran are demanding that Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei steps down, after the country's military admitted to accidentally downing a Ukrainian passenger jet, killing all 176 people on board

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/c...preme/fdxwb52/

Definitely an interesting read from an Iranian perspective, including subsequent posts.

I'd expect the Revolutionary Guard will be on the streets shooting and beating people before the night is over.

[nik-]

Trump tweeting support for the protesters. In Farsi.

2020 is already bonkers. Could you imagine this clown derping his way into the Iranian regime being overthrown? Jesus Christ.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by nik-

Trump tweeting support for the protesters. In Farsi.

2020 is already bonkers. Could you imagine this clown derping his way into the Iranian regime being overthrown? Jesus Christ.

Clown or not if it leads to change in oppression there all the better.
Trump is pulling a “Tkchuk” on Iran.

[Matata]

Jews after WW2: it sure would be nice if we had somewhere to live in peace

USA: we got you. *starts bulldozing Muslim neighborhoods in the middle east*

Jews after WW2: um, thanks?

USA: you might have to defend yourself *hands over a metric #### ton of weapons*

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Matata

Jews after WW2: it sure would be nice if we had somewhere to live in peace

USA: we got you. *starts bulldozing Muslim neighborhoods in the middle east*

Jews after WW2: um, thanks?

USA: you might have to defend yourself *hands over a metric #### ton of weapons*

See this is actually anti-Semitic and incredibly ignorant to boot!

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by captaincrunch

i'd expect the revolutionary guard will be on the streets shooting and beating people before the night is over.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1216044561476325377

[Geraldsh]

I don’t read that as anti-Semitic so much as anti-USA and all the white guys who ally with them

[wwkayaker]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Clown or not if it leads to change in oppression there all the better.
Trump is pulling a “Tkchuk” on Iran.

And if it leads to a regime which is more oppressive?

[opendoor]

I'm not sure why anyone thinks the US being able to be energy self-sufficient means that the government isn't interested in controlling and/or heavily influencing countries with valuable oil reserves. US companies (particularly ones that are well-connected to the political establishment like Halliburton) make fortunes off of getting contracts for oil field services in US-influenced Middle Eastern countries, even if not a drop of that oil makes its way in to the US.

And to be fair, this applies equally to countries like Russia and China as well. But the notion that oil reserves aren't a massive (and the primary) factor in US Middle Eastern just because the US has a secure oil supply is ridiculously simplistic.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

1. actually I posited Iran might have been better off if we hadn't conquered it in 1943 and overthrown its reasonably democratic regime, I made no comment about Balfour as regards Iran.

2. that the original border of Israel was smaller in '49 doesn't alter the fact that it was all taken from the Arabic inhabitants in the first place and therefore was bound to cause problems, if China decided that as there are a lot of Chinese people in Richmond and the lower mainland they were going to create a small Chinese country in BC we would be happy would we?

3. The only point I have made is the creation of Israel in the Middle East due to a crime committed in Europe by mainly Germans wasn't likely to make the local Palestinians happy about having their land taken, a resentment we are still dealing with to this day.

4. Trump has constantly threatened to reign hell on all kinds of people, most of us know it is just rhetoric, as it is when Iran threatens Israel.
Iran has thus far never attacked Israel except through its proxies, unlike Israel that has occasionally bombed Iran (for very good reason).

You and Peter assume that because I see a large reason for our problems in the region being our creation and support of Israel that I think we shouldn't have done either, this isn't true, I just see the result of us doing this as a reason we are attacked these days and I think if we are to find a way out of this mess we have to be honest about this.

It's a myth that Israel was created just because of the holocaust. Jews had many many attempts to set up a sovereign nation, in what was a then a province of the Ottoman Empire. By the early 1800s there was already a Jewish majority in Jerusalem. Jews were going to declare an independent nation there before the holocaust happened. The Balfour declaration was made in 1917, long before the holocaust. If anything, the holocaust significantly weakened Israel's military position by diminishing the overall Jewish population.

Also, no independent Arab nation existed there until post WWI. A better analogy would be that if Canada broke up and a minority group that had a majority in an area founded their own nation on a small portion of the land and the rest of the land was given to the majority. The majority of Jewish Israelis are also descended from refugees from Arab/Muslims countries.

Your main issue, and not just with this point, is that your views are too simplistic and black/white. You've labelled certain groups as bad and others as good. You're giving lip service to "Iran not being perfect" but your views don't actually take that into account.

Also, Israel has never bombed Iran. They've hit Iranian proxy armies in Lebanon, Syria, etc.. but never actually attacked Iran itself.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's a myth that Israel was created just because of the holocaust. Jews had many many attempts to set up a sovereign nation, in what was a then a province of the Ottoman Empire. By the early 1800s there was already a Jewish majority in Jerusalem. Jews were going to declare an independent nation there before the holocaust happened. The Balfour declaration was made in 1917, long before the holocaust. If anything, the holocaust significantly weakened Israel's military position by diminishing the overall Jewish population.

Also, no independent Arab nation existed there until post WWI. A better analogy would be that if Canada broke up and a minority group that had a majority in an area founded their own nation on a small portion of the land and the rest of the land was given to the majority. The majority of Jewish Israelis are also descended from refugees from Arab/Muslims countries.

Your main issue, and not just with this point, is that your views are too simplistic and black/white. You've labelled certain groups as bad and others as good. You're giving lip service to "Iran not being perfect" but your views don't actually take that into account.

Also, Israel has never bombed Iran. They've hit Iranian proxy armies in Lebanon, Syria, etc.. but never actually attacked Iran itself.

My mistake, conflating Iran and Iraq

[Matata]

Originally Posted by peter12

See this is actually anti-Semitic and incredibly ignorant to boot!

It's actually anti military industrial complex, which loves to use antisemitism to deflect criticism.