63 Canadians killed after civilian airliner shot down.

[edslunch]

Arbitrarily dividing the ME into countries was part of it too

Edit: deleted some drunken ramble

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Arbitrarily dividing the ME into countries was part of it too

Edit: deleted some drunken ramble

Haven't we all

[nik-]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

My point was that there wouldn't have been a revolution if we had allowed the country to develop democratically in the 1930's instead of overthrowing their democratic Government in 43', there would have been no Khomeini.

Actually I will change this a bit, my point is we have screwed with that whole region for a century for no better reason than we wanted to get their oil as cheaply as possible, that the whole political mess there is a reaction to our actions. That by being the bad guy we have given political credibility to anyone who argues an anti western position, from Nassar to Khomeini, who knows what the region would look like if we left it alone but I doubt they would hate us as they do now

Why do you assume it wouldn't have been better though? If the west wasn't there, are they simply replaced with the Soviets?

You'll never get me arguing that the Western policy in the ME has worked out. I mean it clearly hasn't, but the answer will never be to just dust off our hands and walk away. It just won't happen.

Oil was the old answer, and just because it led to a lot of this doesn't mean we can just say "oh the US wants oil so hurr durr and look what we did". Sometimes countries have bad actors and after a while they should be seen as such and not just excused away as an echo to past policy.

They've had 40 years to decide they don't want to destroy Israel. They've had 40 years to stop fomenting terrorism in their neighbouring states, often with nothing to do with Western presence. They haven't

The West has ####ed up, and will likely continue to, but Iran is still a problem independent of that.

[MRCboicgy]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1215841813644431361


But it followed normal departure path...

[burn_this_city]

The fact they admitted it is a shock. I guess in the face of overwhelming evidence.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Wow. I stand corrected.

[nik-]

At least they didn't go full Russian. Glad they're taking responsibility.

[WinnipegFan]

I truly hope we can take this tragedy as a starting point to recognize our mutual humanity and loss. Start to heal, it is incredibly hard for a country, any country, to admit this type of error. I admire the courage it takes to do so and hope the world can recognize this as well. Unite to mourn the loss of life and move forward with an understanding we are all human.

[burn_this_city]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1215847283381755914

[PsYcNeT]

Yeah I was defo wrong. Very surprised they would deflect for days and then cop to it.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

https://twitter.com/user/status/1215847283381755914

Sorry I’m far from an American apologist, but they were not the ones who shot down the plane.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Sorry I’m far from an American apologist, but they were not the ones who shot down the plane.

No they weren't, but the guys sitting in that truck were probably expecting they would die when the Americans hit back. Very first thing the US would blow up with cruise missiles or stealth bombers would be the air defence system. In that context you can see why something like this can happen.

[Dynamic]

Wow that was uhhh unexpected. Honestly never thought Iran would ever admit what was pretty much a given. At the very least it will offer some sense of closure eventually down the road for those that are hurting right now. I imagine all the loved ones of the victims of MH17 would also like to have a sense of relief if Russia ever owned up to their shooting.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

no they weren't, but the guys sitting in that truck were probably expecting they would die when the americans hit back. Very first thing the us would blow up with cruise missiles or stealth bombers would be the air defence system. In that context you can see why something like this can happen.

ffs

[CaptainCrunch]

Get out the check book, pay restitution, sack some generals, and dissolve the Republican Guards units.



They knew they shot this plane down from hour one and only apologized after starting a coverup and knowing they were cornered.



We will see how sincere they are in the coming days.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

No they weren't, but the guys sitting in that truck were probably expecting they would die when the Americans hit back. Very first thing the US would blow up with cruise missiles or stealth bombers would be the air defence system. In that context you can see why something like this can happen.

It seemed both sides were trying to play fake tough guys for various motives. They played a dangerous game where things like this can happen.

If a couple testosterone fueled kids played a game of chicken and both peeled off, and one careened through a bunch of pedestrians ... does it really matter which one kills all the people?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

No they weren't, but the guys sitting in that truck were probably expecting they would die when the Americans hit back. Very first thing the US would blow up with cruise missiles or stealth bombers would be the air defence system. In that context you can see why something like this can happen.

I don't buy that at all, they shot into a civilian air corridor at a plane that was probably screaming hey I'm an airliner, while gaining altitude which is not the profile of a cruise missile or attack bird.



They were stupid or incompetent, that will hopefully be up to a court to decide.


If the American's had done this shoot down like the Vincennce incident in the modern day of the internet would people be as sympathetic towards the Americans? I have my doubts.

[WinnipegFan]

Depends if you mean an America in the same position and context as Iran when this occurred then yes I think they would. In fact if the US ever accidentally shot down their own plane, then yes I would hope sympathy and compassion would be the response.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by peter12

ffs

I have people on Facebook screaming it was all Trumps fault.

Then I remembered why I stopped going on Facebook.

[flylock shox]

Finally, the right response from Iran.

President Hassan Rouhani, in a message on Twitter, said, “Armed Forces’ internal investigation has concluded that regrettably missiles fired due to human error caused the horrific crash of the Ukrainian plane & death of 176 innocent people. Investigations continue to identify & prosecute this great tragedy & unforgivable mistake.



“The Islamic Republic of Iran deeply regrets this disastrous mistake. My thoughts and prayers go to all the mourning families. I offer my sincerest condolences,” Rouhani added.

This allows a path forward, in spite of the early denials. I expect Canada's response to be firm and gracious, and hopefully Ukraine's is the same, and they can pave a way to a thorough accounting and compensation for the benefit of the families.