[Trade] Flames trade Frolik to Buffalo for a 2020 4th

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

Any contract brought in is subject to the same reduction so it's easier to just refer to the yearly dollar value.

Except if you bring in the new contract later in the year, you've saved the cap room in the interim as well. In other words, the longer the Flames play without a replacement, using the kids instead, the more expensive contract they can bring in closer to the deadline.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except if you bring in the new contract later in the year, you've saved the cap room in the interim as well. In other words, the longer the Flames play without a replacement, using the kids instead, the more expensive contract they can bring in closer to the deadline.

Yeah if you have $4.3M in cap space the entire season you accrue a bunch of space at the deadline ... something like $16.5M

The Flames missed out on the first half of the year to do that, so it's a number between $4.3M and half of that (say $8M), less LTIR implications in terms of the actual player cap they can acquire at the deadline.

If they make the move now and trade for a player it's basically $4.3M

At least I think that's how it works.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Anyone who converts a friggin’ Jagr to a Hoffman should be laughed out of the dome.

It’s Jaromir friggin’ Jagr. If you have one, wear it with pride. One of the best all time.

The only jersey I've put a player's name and number on since... Joe Nieuwendyk's rookie year.

I'm not changing that. I still wear it.

I even put on a Jagr wig and dress up in Flames gear at the end of the season during the child/parent game.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by VilleN

How on earth is this a poor move? Get a pick, gain a chunk of cap, all for a pending UFA. By what logic do you think this was a bad move... I can’t get there.

Because unused cap space is worthless. If the Flames don't do anything then at best they traded away depth for next to nothing (yes yes... a 4th round pick... I'd rather have depth then an extra 4th round pick, we're not rebuilding).

I stand by what I said. If the Flames don't use the cap space it's a poor move. If they do use it... well we can evaluate whether it was a good move depending on what they use it for at that time.

As for how quickly they use it... that's a "pick your poison" option. We're a bubble team right now so we can wait to try and accumulate enough cap to afford a better player later but that comes with the opportunity cost of having a worse roster in the interim. It's riskier.

Personally I hope they make another play for Zucker.

[btimbit]

Meh, even if they don't use the cap space (which I'm sure they will) we did a guy a favour by giving him what he wanted, which was more ice time in a contract year. Getting an asset for an expiring UFA is never a bad idea

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Because unused cap space is worthless. If the Flames don't do anything then at best they traded away depth for next to nothing (yes yes... a 4th round pick... I'd rather have depth then an extra 4th round pick, we're not rebuilding).

I’ll take the fourth every day for Frolik, I thought he had negative value. He has been passed on the death chart by PTO players.

[DeluxeMoustache]

The Flames send a message to anyone with a NTC

No matter how good of a pro you are, if you have a NTC, we have no problem putting you in the blender and press box until you agree to waive it.

[Toonage]

lol and the players with the NTC say when asked to come to Calgary, no thanks I'll play in Colorado.

[Zoller]

Originally Posted by Toonage

lol and the players with the NTC say when asked to come to Calgary, no thanks I'll play in Colorado.

Ya lets face it. Calgary is on most NTC lists

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Because unused cap space is worthless. If the Flames don't do anything then at best they traded away depth for next to nothing (yes yes... a 4th round pick... I'd rather have depth then an extra 4th round pick, we're not rebuilding).



I stand by what I said. If the Flames don't use the cap space it's a poor move. If they do use it... well we can evaluate whether it was a good move depending on what they use it for at that time.



As for how quickly they use it... that's a "pick your poison" option. We're a bubble team right now so we can wait to try and accumulate enough cap to afford a better player later but that comes with the opportunity cost of having a worse roster in the interim. It's riskier.



Personally I hope they make another play for Zucker.

Yeah, I’ll have to disagree. Frolik doesn’t move the needle on this team at all, so essentially we got a 4th round pick, 4.3m in cap space - which at the very least allows the team to explore the trade market. I just can’t see a scenario where this trade is bad... benign maybe, but bad?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by VilleN

so essentially we got a 4th round pick, 4.3m in cap space

Yes, and 4.3M in unused cap space is worthless. I think I've been pretty clear that this is a poor move IF the Flames don't effectively use the space. We're not the Oilers... almost doing things and attempting to do things don't count. They have to actually do something with it and what they do with it has to be meaningful.

Look, I'm not saying this is Gilmour Trade 2.0 it clearly isn't but it's a small negative move that only has potential to later be a positive one. It's not an inherently good move on it's own.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah if you have $4.3M in cap space the entire season you accrue a bunch of space at the deadline ... something like $16.5M

The Flames missed out on the first half of the year to do that, so it's a number between $4.3M and half of that (say $8M), less LTIR implications in terms of the actual player cap they can acquire at the deadline.

If they make the move now and trade for a player it's basically $4.3M

At least I think that's how it works.

Because the deadline is around the 3/4 mark of the year, I believe the cap space saved in this case could get you about a $6.5 million player at the deadline, give or take the LTIR implications as you point out. More than enough for Zucker.

So does Treliving go down a dual path here? Gauge the team's play and decide whether to sell and recover some assets, or use up draft capital and add a meaningful player.

Or does he sell some expiring contracts and use the draft capital to bring in players with term?

My prediction? Flames will have less draft picks after the deadline than they do today, and will have added at least two players with term on their contract. Hamonic and Jankowski also get moved.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I’ll take the fourth every day for Frolik, I thought he had negative value. He has been passed on the death chart by PTO players.

We have a death chart?
No wonder Frolik wanted out.

[Flash Walken]

Strange Brew, I think you are right, the Flames will be adding at least one major asset by the deadline at the expense of some draft picks.

The rumoured 'hockey deal' for hall probably had frolik in it for the sake of balancing contracts, and now with him gone it's easier for the flames to do a deal for pure picks (as picks don't have ntcs).

Maybe Pelletier is involved as well.

I think it's the right move to try as hard as you can to do something with this group this year and then assess your trajectory going into the off-season.

If I was GM I would still be positioning this group for the last kick at the can, knowing I have tradeable assets to jump start a rebuild in the summer if things go to seed this year anyway.

If you add a player in the next couple of weeks and you still arent in the playoffs picture come February/deadline, I'm selling major expiring pieces and going into the playoffs without them.

I think the team composition is flawed anyway, so what if you are playing rasmus and hanifin 23-25 minutes a night if your offense is high octane.

Get them scoring help, sell haminic and Brodie, try to win games 7-6.

[Strange Brew]

Flash I agree. I also think my math was wrong, as the Frolik trade probably gets you a little more than $6.5 million at the deadline, more like closer to $8 million as Bingo had it.

But I think they’ll have to make more room if they do a deal now. As a $4.3 million player probably isn’t enough to move the needle.

Also if Treliving is moving picks right now, he sure as hell better be receiving a premium and/or some lottery protection. This ain’t a first place team trading picks at the deadline. Flames could still finish anywhere.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yes, and 4.3M in unused cap space is worthless. I think I've been pretty clear that this is a poor move IF the Flames don't effectively use the space. We're not the Oilers... almost doing things and attempting to do things don't count. They have to actually do something with it and what they do with it has to be meaningful.

Look, I'm not saying this is Gilmour Trade 2.0 it clearly isn't but it's a small negative move that only has potential to later be a positive one. It's not an inherently good move on it's own.

Right but when the small negative move (less NHL depth) is really, really small, and maybe not even negative if it allows a younger player to play while also bringing back a tangible asset ... while opening up the possibility of a big win (acquiring top six forward without having to include a cap dump and a pick to sweeten) it's a win.

[FBI]

A poll would be interesting “if people like this move”, I’m guessing parallel would be in the very very small minority.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Yup, good move. Weren't some recently arguing that Frolik had negative value? (I like Frolik and hope he can turn this opportunity into another contract, with another team).

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Yup, good move. Weren't some recently arguing that Frolik had negative value?

Anyone who said that Frolik had a negative value, doesn't understand hockey.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Right but when the small negative move (less NHL depth) is really, really small, and maybe not even negative if it allows a younger player to play while also bringing back a tangible asset.

The tangible asset in question (the 4th round pick) is a really really small positive (and nothing stops the coach from using the younger player if the younger player is in fact better anyways). Absent future knowledge I'd rather have the NHL depth. Hence why it being a "win" depends on Treliving effectively using the space he created. If he does that then it was a good move, if he doesn't then it wasn't.

I'm just not going to call it a good move until we see what he does with that space. If he get's Jason Zucker (at a reasonable price) then I'll say "#### YA! it was a good move!", if he sits on his hands I'll say it was a poor move, and if he uses the space to get us a Troy Brouwer redux then I'll say it was a ####ty move.

Originally Posted by FBI

A poll would be interesting “if people like this move”, I’m guessing parallel would be in the very very small minority.

Then I guess it's a good thing that I don't care whether I have the minority opinion or not.