Star Wars : Episode IX (No Spoilers)

[peter12]

Well I brought my damn ticket like a goddam sucker.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Rey = Luke
Poe = Leia
Finn = Han
Kylo = Vader

You know and maybe its just me, but I go back to my argument about the Strong Protagonist, and they missed the boat. Kyle just wasn't even as menacing as Vader was as a Villain, and as the series went on it became worse.


I mean you look at the Vader entrance in ANH and it completely enthralled you, and you could feel that he was a black cloud of evil. Even in his dialogue first with the Rebel Captain, then with the Stormtrooper Major. You got a sense that he wasn't a guy to be trifled with.


With Ren, you didn't get that sense off of the start. And then when they had him throwing termper tantrums it kind of slid.


The other issue for me is that I think that Driver is an amazing actor, I've liked him in everything he does, but I just didn't think that he was dark enough of an actor as Ren, and I'm not talking about Flesh tones here. He just doesn't have the timbre.


I will admit that I loved the scene with Kylo and Solo on the bridge, you could feel the conflict with Ren and when the light drained from the room you knew what was going to happen, it was this moment of complete brilliance. But instead of passing through into the dark, he went right back to being kind of soft in his fight with Rey.


I think the mistake is JJ trying to shoe horn a new Vader into the movie with the mask and cloak etc. They had a chance to create something unique that wouldn't draw comparisons with Vader.


I also forgot to mention the greatest crime in the first two movies and that's phasma, what a waste of a potential character. I mean they should have kept the deleted scene from TLJ when she was killing Stormtroopers.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I also forgot to mention the greatest crime in the first two movies and that's phasma, what a waste of a potential character. I mean they should have kept the deleted scene from TLJ when she was killing Stormtroopers.

That crime wouldn't have been fixed with more screen time. just a terrible character, more screen time would have made it worse.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He operated the headlights man the headlights.

That may have been the case, but he also didn’t lose the falcon’s radar dish. Lando probably never heard the end of that from him at the after party on Endor. Or from Han for that matter “What the #### happened to not a scratch Lando?”

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You know and maybe its just me, but I go back to my argument about the Strong Protagonist, and they missed the boat. Kyle just wasn't even as menacing as Vader was as a Villain, and as the series went on it became worse.


I mean you look at the Vader entrance in ANH and it completely enthralled you, and you could feel that he was a black cloud of evil. Even in his dialogue first with the Rebel Captain, then with the Stormtrooper Major. You got a sense that he wasn't a guy to be trifled with.


With Ren, you didn't get that sense off of the start. And then when they had him throwing termper tantrums it kind of slid.


The other issue for me is that I think that Driver is an amazing actor, I've liked him in everything he does, but I just didn't think that he was dark enough of an actor as Ren, and I'm not talking about Flesh tones here. He just doesn't have the timbre.


I will admit that I loved the scene with Kylo and Solo on the bridge, you could feel the conflict with Ren and when the light drained from the room you knew what was going to happen, it was this moment of complete brilliance. But instead of passing through into the dark, he went right back to being kind of soft in his fight with Rey.


I think the mistake is JJ trying to shoe horn a new Vader into the movie with the mask and cloak etc. They had a chance to create something unique that wouldn't draw comparisons with Vader.


I also forgot to mention the greatest crime in the first two movies and that's phasma, what a waste of a potential character. I mean they should have kept the deleted scene from TLJ when she was killing Stormtroopers.

Yeah the mask and the temper tantrums (Both JJ pieces) hurt the character.

Kylo was as his best when Driver was allowed to show his emotions and the internal struggle in his face in the scenes where the mask was off.

I feel like the second the mask went on he just wasn’t menacing anymore, really felt like a kid in cosplay.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah the mask and the temper tantrums (Both JJ pieces) hurt the character.

Kylo was as his best when Driver was allowed to show his emotions and the internal struggle in his face in the scenes where the mask was off.

I feel like the second the mask went on he just wasn’t menacing anymore, really felt like a kid in cosplay.

He came off like a petulant child, which is how the character was written, not a criticism of Driver himself.

The fact that he was trying really, really hard to be evil was just ridiculous. That's not a real motivation for a villain.

Moff Gideon in his 2 minute appearance in The Mandalorian has already trumped any moment that Ren had as a fearsome enemy across three movies.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

He came off like a petulant child, which is how the character was written, not a criticism of Driver himself.

The fact that he was trying really, really hard to be evil was just ridiculous. That's not a real motivation for a villain.

Moff Gideon in his 2 minute appearance in The Mandalorian has already trumped any moment that Ren had as a fearsome enemy across three movies.

That’s because he’s Gustavo mf’n Fring!!! I agree, but I wonder how much that has to do with it. What if they had cast him as kylo ren? Would we have believed it more?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by zukes

That’s because he’s Gustavo mf’n Fring!!! I agree, but I wonder how much that has to do with it. What if they had cast him as kylo ren? Would we have believed it more?

Giancarlo Esposito could totally convince me that he's the son of Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford.

[CaptainCrunch]

He could have just stood there and stared and not said anything and had the credits roll and I would have been like holy crap!.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

In ESB at the end even though there is some reason for optimism and weirdness as Lando is wearing Hans clothes. The over all sense is that the Empire was truly ascendant and you wanted to see the next movie to see how Luke and the Rebels were dealing with such a pasting.

I can't believe I'm going to say it, but I think you missed the end of ESB.

The last scene with the Empire has Vader watching the MF jump to lightspeed/hyperspace, escaping his clutches. Vader turns and stalks away angry and frustrated, and the bridge crew stand around with their heads down.

The last scenes with the Rebellion have Lando and Chewy already having a plan to save Han. Lando has a slight grin the entire time. Luke and Lea are staying with the fleet, but Luke's hand is fixed, and there are big, genuine smiles between them. In fact the very last image is one of Luke, Lea, C3PO and R2D2 in front of a window with them physically dwarfing an entire galaxy.

The ending didn't just offer some reason for hope, but with the Rebellion on the mat and the Empire ascendant. No, IMO there is a swell of hope, feeling that the Rebellion had been on the mat, but had stood up, dusted itself off, and would win through, with great anticipation for ROTJ, because they set the hook of a plot line that will get them started.

TLJ had none of that. It wasn't dark enough, yet still left us with no swell of hope and nothing concrete to look forward to in the final movie.

[Wastedyouth]

Watched Episode 9.

It has its warts. But it was a million times better thanThe Last Jedi.

[peter12]

One of my favourite things about Calgarypuck is CC's long, intelligent, rambling, workshopping posts about Star Wars.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by peter12

Well I brought my damn ticket like a goddam sucker.

I think you'll be happy you did.

No need to be an "I rebel!" Jyn Erso. It's actually pretty good folks.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah.

I think the reviewers are wrong on this one. It has it's flaws but it was pretty well done, wraps up the story nicely, and was pretty entertaining.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I read all the spoilers a couple days ago on Reddit. I’m talking the full plot synopsis. I only skimmed it but I got all the major beats. And I ####ing hated it. I was laughing at how dumb it sounded. I thought Star Wars was ruined.

JJ saved Star Wars. I was fully prepared to walk out of the theatre and hate this franchise. Now I love it again.

I actually dislike TLJ now except a few parts because of this movie.

[codynw]

Without reading the whole thread, did anyone that disliked TLJ as much as I did enjoy this movie? That's the only opinions I wanna hear.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Mike F

I can't believe I'm going to say it, but I think you missed the end of ESB.

The last scene with the Empire has Vader watching the MF jump to lightspeed/hyperspace, escaping his clutches. Vader turns and stalks away angry and frustrated, and the bridge crew stand around with their heads down.

The last scenes with the Rebellion have Lando and Chewy already having a plan to save Han. Lando has a slight grin the entire time. Luke and Lea are staying with the fleet, but Luke's hand is fixed, and there are big, genuine smiles between them. In fact the very last image is one of Luke, Lea, C3PO and R2D2 in front of a window with them physically dwarfing an entire galaxy.

The ending didn't just offer some reason for hope, but with the Rebellion on the mat and the Empire ascendant. No, IMO there is a swell of hope, feeling that the Rebellion had been on the mat, but had stood up, dusted itself off, and would win through, with great anticipation for ROTJ, because they set the hook of a plot line that will get them started.

TLJ had none of that. It wasn't dark enough, yet still left us with no swell of hope and nothing concrete to look forward to in the final movie.

That random kid using the force to pick up a broom? LOL. That was Johnson's version of hope, and he intended the movie to feel hopeful at the end. I just don't think he understood the source material well enough to communicate that.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by codynw

Did anyone that disliked TLJ as much as I did enjoy this movie? That's the only opinions I wanna hear.

It's not awful like the TLJ. The horrible humour is gone. The focus is back on the main plots/characters. They've removed a lot of the non-Star Warsy stuff like those ridiculous bombers and put back in B/Y wings. Characters like Rose get the Jar Jar treatment, and show up only in minor background roles.

It wasn't amazing. I'm still making up my mind about it. A major issue for me was so many things were happening so fast. Maybe JJ had to cram more things in, as TLJ basically took up an entire movie of the trilogy with total uselessness.

I'll probably watch it again.

I probably disliked TLJ more than you. I really disliked TLJ. RoS has much more in common, not surprinsingly, with TFA. The trilogy, as a whole, would have been much better with a single director handling the whole thing. I still just do not understand the decision to change course so drastically for TLJ. It was never going to be possible to have a sequel to TLJ that was amazing, so don't expect a truly amazing film.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by blankall

The trilogy, as a whole, would have been much better with a single director handling the whole thing. I still just do not understand the decision to change course so drastically for TLJ. It was never going to be possible to have a sequel to TLJ that was amazing, so don't expect a truly amazing film.

Yea it's simply baffling that they seem to have done this trilogy with no plan in place. Different directors isn't even the issue, Star Wars needs someone like Kevin Feige who oversees a long term plan. Marvel probably has a rough idea of what they want to be doing in ten years, this sequel trilogy feels like it didn't know what it wanted from scene to scene sometimes.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah.

I think the reviewers are wrong on this one. It has it's flaws but it was pretty well done, wraps up the story nicely, and was pretty entertaining.

It felt like TLJ was a movie for non SW fans and critics and this was a movie purely for fans. I can see why the critics had such a massive swing.