[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If the choice was Valimaki or Fox, then the trade as it went down is a Flames win.


My point was, what alternatives would the Flames have had in lieu of including Fox? If Carolina would have accepted a second round pick, then the Flames overpaid with Fox. If it was Fox or Andersson, then Flames came out ahead by including Fox.

Or maybe Fox was the target all along for Carolina.

Worded poorly by me.

I think I read on this board a long time ago that the ask from Carolina was Bennett instead of Ferland. Flames wouldn’t give up Bennett, so had to add Fox to the trade to make it work.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If the choice was Valimaki or Fox, then the trade as it went down is a Flames win.


My point was, what alternatives would the Flames have had in lieu of including Fox? If Carolina would have accepted a second round pick, then the Flames overpaid with Fox. If it was Fox or Andersson, then Flames came out ahead by including Fox.

Or maybe Fox was the target all along for Carolina.

Worded poorly by me.

Thanks. That clarifies things nicely, and I agree with your premise and valuations. Can you explain you have Valimaki listed as a Flames win "with an asterisk"?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yeah, that makes more sense, thanks.

Strange Brew, why do you have Valimaki listed as a Flames win "with an asterisk"?

Well I called it a Flames win because Valimaki was more valuable. So it's a Flames win period. Maybe asterisk isn't right, maybe call it a cloud of uncertainty over Valimaki in general.

Appreciate that others explained my position better than I did.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I think I read on this board a long time ago that the ask from Carolina was Bennett instead of Ferland. Flames wouldn’t give up Bennett, so had to add Fox to the trade to make it work.

Interesting.

Given the choice between Bennett or Ferland and Fox, I am glad it was Ferland and Fox.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I think I read on this board a long time ago that the ask from Carolina was Bennett instead of Ferland. Flames wouldn’t give up Bennett, so had to add Fox to the trade to make it work.

So one year of Bennett going into RFA status, or one year of Ferland going to UFA and two second round picks?

That should create a giant split amongst Flames fans. I'd take Ferland and the picks.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So one year of Bennett going into RFA status, or one year of Ferland going to UFA and two second round picks?

That should create a giant split amongst Flames fans. I'd take Ferland and the picks.

I wasn’t too afraid of Bennett’s RFA demands. And if he earned a big raise that’s a good thing, right?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So one year of Bennett going into RFA status, or one year of Ferland going to UFA and two second round picks?

That should create a giant split amongst Flames fans. I'd take Ferland and the picks.

I don’t believe that at the time of the trade Adam Fox’s value was the same as it was when he was traded the following year for two second round picks. With another year of college domination he was almost certainly worth more to Carolina than he was to Calgary when they moved him.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don’t believe that at the time of the trade Adam Fox’s value was the same as it was when he was traded the following year for two second round picks. With another year of college domination he was almost certainly worth more to Carolina than he was to Calgary when they moved him.

Right but the Flames could have done exactly what Carolina did and hung onto him. It’s not like his development came from nowhere.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don’t believe that at the time of the trade Adam Fox’s value was the same as it was when he was traded the following year for two second round picks. With another year of college domination he was almost certainly worth more to Carolina than he was to Calgary when they moved him.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I wasn’t too afraid of Bennett’s RFA demands. And if he earned a big raise that’s a good thing, right?

Agreed. Bennett’s RFA status increased his value relative to Ferland.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Right but the Flames could have done exactly what Carolina did and hung onto him. It’s not like his development came from nowhere.

True, but since they moved him when they did and considering what they received in return for him at the time, his value was probably never higher for the Flames than it was in Summer 2018.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

True, but since they moved him when they did and considering what they received in return for him at the time, his value was probably never higher for the Flames than it was in Summer 2018.

Yeah Fox’s value only gone up from when he was drafted.

But when you look at what if, you could say that Bennett’s value has gone down since that trade whereas Fox has gone up. So arguably Flames would have been better off trading Bennett. I mean, they could have still dealt Ferland and Fox that summer for a scoring forward and not signed Neal. Imagine that butterfly effect.

[Doctorfever]

It’s a tough call. I like Bennett, and am glad to have him over Ferland. I guess if Fox was never going to play a game in a Flames jersey he had to be traded at some point.

I like the way it turned out for the Flames. Ferland is a great player, but concussions are going to end his career early.

[TheIronMaiden]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1205145855705137153

[sureLoss]

Lebrun with a Lindholm article re-examining the trade:

https://theathletic.com/3323066/2022...shared_article

What would have made this trade so different is whether Carolina could have convinced Fox to stay and sign.

The Flames knew Fox would never sign with them. Treliving didn’t want to include him in the Hurricanes deal because he wanted to trade Fox in a separate deal and get more for him. But Waddell insisted on Fox being part of the deal because he met the player’s agent, Matt Keator, at the draft and was at least told the Canes would have a chance with Fox.

“We were told that the player did not want to sign for a Canadian team,” Waddell said of his chat at the time with Keator.

Which was echoed by Keator when reached on Thursday.

“We had conversations with Carolina, Adam attended a development camp there, we had plenty of discussions but in the end, Adam wanted to go home and in the end, they were compensated. They didn’t get nothing,” Keator told The Athletic.

Once it was clear Fox wasn’t going to sign with the Hurricanes, and that his heart was set on the Rangers, they did pretty well netting two second-round picks from New York, considering Fox would have been an unrestricted free agent.

But imagine if Carolina had been able to sign Fox.

[djsFlames]

Being able to just pick your team out of college if a team has already drafted you/acquired your rights is something that should be eradicated asap.

Close the loophole.

Allan Fawkes sucks!

[Flamesfan05]

Fox is the best player from the deal
Lindholm has done well for the Flames
Hamilton had a couple great yrs but now he got a fat deal and lazy
Hanifin is the worst dman in the deal but he has a key role on the Flames

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Fox is the best player from the deal
Lindholm has done well for the Flames
Hamilton had a couple great yrs but now he got a fat deal and lazy
Hanifin is the worst dman in the deal but he has a key role on the Flames

Hanifin was significantly better than Hamilton this year for more than $4M less

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Being able to just pick your team out of college if a team has already drafted you/acquired your rights is something that should be eradicated asap.

Close the loophole.

Allan Fawkes sucks!

Agreed. After College is done instead of automatically being UFA they should only be UFA if the team with their rights wont sign them to Max dollar Entry level Contract.

That way it still gives the the team rights to the player and the player isnt handcuffed to whatever the team will offer.

Almost seems too simple.

[djsFlames]

The only thing Hamilton has on Hanifin is a handful of goals.

He's definitely not a better 200ft defender.

[The Yen Man]

It doesn't matter if Fox turns into the next Lidstrom, he was never going to sign with the Flames. So this was still a fantastic trade from an asset management perspective for the Flames.