[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox - Page 211 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Knut · 12-09-2019, 11:26 AM

Oft-injured Ferland is being paid 3.5 M and barely playing.

Hamilton will be getting an 6-7 year 8+ M Deal after next season.

Hanifin and Lindholm combine for under 10 M for the next 5 seasons and push the window of Competitiveness back a few years.

The trade is a win for many reasons :

1) Longer term window with good cap hits on the players we acquired
2) Ferland's days in the NHL are likely done due to injuries
3) Hamilton did not want to be here
4) Fox would not have signed here.

edslunch · 12-09-2019, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So no polls or anything? Just something you’ve assumed.

Man you are insufferable. I don’t happen to agree that Carolina won the trade but denying that Hamilton is having a Norris caliber season is just being confrontational. And no it doesn’t mean he’s the second best all round defence man in the league since the Norris tends to be biased towards offence, but it’s still the common benchmark.

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nh...s-trophy-odds/

http://www.espn.com/nhl/trophies

https://www.nhl.com/news/norris-trop...on/c-311557918

Flamenspiel · 12-09-2019, 11:41 AM

In fact Carolina will have trouble re-signing him.

Ryan Coke · 12-09-2019, 11:45 AM

Points are huge in Norris voting, although voters are starting to look at all around game more. But based on points it won’t be surprise if Hamilton gets votes. But I don’t know how anyone can call him an elite player. He is not a guy I would want to build a team around.

Jiri Hrdina · 12-09-2019, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

In fact Carolina will have trouble re-signing him.

I think there is a good chance he re-signs. Fit seems to be important to him - and things have gone well in Carolina. And a smaller market with less glare may be more appealing to him.
All guesswork on my part. But I could see him re-signing.

CliffFletcher · 12-09-2019, 11:53 AM

Hamilton is another Mike Green. Big guy, can skate and shoot the puck. But certainly not a guy you want anchoring your defence. The Hurricanes have a couple better all-around d-men who can shelter Hamilton. But I'll be surprised if they'll pay him the way he'll expect to be paid - like a genuine elite d-man (which he isn't).

Textcritic · 12-09-2019, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think there is a good chance he re-signs. Fit seems to be important to him - and things have gone well in Carolina. And a smaller market with less glare may be more appealing to him.
All guesswork on my part. But I could see him re-signing.

I can't see Carolina paying +$8.0 m for Hamilton, and I also can't see him settling for less than +$9.0 m that he is likely to get on the free market.

GioforPM · 12-09-2019, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edslunch

Man you are insufferable. I don’t happen to agree that Carolina won the trade but denying that Hamilton is having a Norris caliber season is just being confrontational. And no it doesn’t mean he’s the second best all round defence man in the league since the Norris tends to be biased towards offence, but it’s still the common benchmark.

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nh...s-trophy-odds/

http://www.espn.com/nhl/trophies

https://www.nhl.com/news/norris-trop...on/c-311557918

Insufferable for asking for proof that "everyone has Hamilton as a frontrunner". OK, I'll wear that. BTW, who is "sportsbettingdime"? I would imagine they are oddsmakers, which places emphasis on betting patterns. The others have Carlson as the front runner. In fact:

So it should be no surprise that Carlson was chosen unanimously by a panel of 20 NHL.com writers to win the Norris Trophy after the first quarter of the season. Carlson received 100 points, including all 20 first-place votes, and was the only player to be selected on every ballot.

Hackey · 12-09-2019, 12:59 PM

Hamilton is top 3 for scoring so far so I'm sure he's getting some Norris consideration. Don't think he's a top 15-20 in the league for dmen though.

Bingo · 12-09-2019, 01:20 PM

Man what a disappointment to see a good hockey debate come down to ...

eye rolls
LOLs
appeals to authority
homer
homer glasses
and there should be no debate

What's wrong with having an opinion and being ok that others may see it another way without the need to undercut or undermine the people you are talking arguing with?

blankall · 12-09-2019, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hes

4) Fox would not have signed here.

This is key to assessing the trade. If there was any chance of Fox signing here, he wouldn't have been included. Ferland's issues and desire for a raise were well known. He was not going to be a long-term Flame either.

It was basically Hamilton, 2nd rounder, + conditional 3rd rounder (what Carolina got for Fox's rights to the NYR) for Hanifin and Lindholm. There's obviously some truth to the locker room/culture issues with Hamilton. It's basically a trade you make every time.

GioforPM · 12-09-2019, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hackey

Hamilton is top 3 for scoring so far so I'm sure he's getting some Norris consideration. Don't think he's a top 15-20 in the league for dmen though.

I can think of 10 that are better IMO, so top 15.

Strange Brew · 12-09-2019, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall

This is key to assessing the trade. If there was any chance of Fox signing here, he wouldn't have been included. Ferland's issues and desire for a raise were well known. He was not going to be a long-term Flame either.

It was basically Hamilton, 2nd rounder, + conditional 3rd rounder (what Carolina got for Fox's rights to the NYR) for Hanifin and Lindholm. There's obviously some truth to the locker room/culture issues with Hamilton. It's basically a trade you make every time.

And a year of Ferland. Rentals seem to go for a lot and they got a year from him.

A lot of the debate comes down to Fox's value and so it would be interesting to know if Carolina would have accepted anything else in lieu of Fox to close the deal.

Valimaki? Flames win, with an *
Andersson? Flames win
1st round pick? Close but Flames win
2nd round pick? Canes win
3rd round pick? Canes win

I'm just referring to the value received for Fox of course.

Textcritic · 12-09-2019, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

And a year of Ferland. Rentals seem to go for a lot and they got a year from him.

A lot of the debate comes down to Fox's value and so it would be interesting to know if Carolina would have accepted anything else in lieu of Fox to close the deal.

Valimaki? Flames win, with an *
Andersson? Flames win
1st round pick? Close but Flames win
2nd round pick? Canes win
3rd round pick? Canes win

I'm just referring to the value received for Fox of course.

Did you list these verdicts correctly, or am I misunderstanding? I find it bizarre that a "Flames win" would have included Valimaki instead of Fox, while a "Canes win" would have included a third instead of Fox.

Red Potato Standing By · 12-09-2019, 03:11 PM

Yeah I am confused as well

powderjunkie · 12-09-2019, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I think it became well known after the trade of Hamilton that he wasn't fitting into the team particularly well.

FWIW, Boston felt the need to deal him also.

Wasn't Boston trading him pretty much 99% cap related? A nice problem to have from fleecing Toronto twice? They also had to trade away Lucic that off-season...

Of course, they could have chosen to trade away other assets, but it would never have been easy for them to add Hamilton's $5-6M to the cap (or perhaps bridge deal being an alternative).

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/br...p-tracker/2016

IamNotKenKing · 12-09-2019, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Did you list these verdicts correctly, or am I misunderstanding? I find it bizarre that a "Flames win" would have included Valimaki instead of Fox, while a "Canes win" would have included a third instead of Fox.

I think he means if it came down the Canes demanding Valimaki or Fox, and we gave Fox, we won.
While if it came down to a 3rd or Fox, and we gave Fox, the Canes won.
And then everything in between...

Textcritic · 12-09-2019, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

I think he means if it came down the Canes demanding Valimaki or Fox, and we gave Fox, we won.
While if it came down to a 3rd or Fox, and we gave Fox, the Canes won.
And then everything in between...

Yeah, that makes more sense, thanks.

Strange Brew, why do you have Valimaki listed as a Flames win "with an asterisk"?

GioforPM · 12-09-2019, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yeah, that makes more sense, thanks.

Strange Brew, why do you have Valimaki listed as a Flames win "with an asterisk"?

Probably because of the injury I'm guessing. But you can do that with any asset (Andersson could be injured, Fox could get injured, etc.).

Strange Brew · 12-09-2019, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Did you list these verdicts correctly, or am I misunderstanding? I find it bizarre that a "Flames win" would have included Valimaki instead of Fox, while a "Canes win" would have included a third instead of Fox.

If the choice was Valimaki or Fox, then the trade as it went down is a Flames win.

My point was, what alternatives would the Flames have had in lieu of including Fox? If Carolina would have accepted a second round pick, then the Flames overpaid with Fox. If it was Fox or Andersson, then Flames came out ahead by including Fox.

Or maybe Fox was the target all along for Carolina.

Worded poorly by me.