[News] Bill Peters resigns as head coach. No longer part of Flames org. Ward interim HC

[zamler]

Originally Posted by zunie75

unpopular opinion, but speaking as a person of color, Trudeau being a complete idiot and wearing brown face didn't really insult me. It just showed hes an immature idiot who probably didn't even grasp that it wasn't right and thought it was all for fun.

If Trudeau came out and called me a Pa*i or Ra*head, then I would be insulted.

The difference between the two is the intention, I feel. One is said in a very malicious direct way. The other, is the result of an immature court jester.

Both very wrong, but to me, both very different.

Immature idiot at 29? Give me break.

There is a massive double standard here and anyone with a brain knows it, just too chicken to admit it. I can think of 10 politicians off the top of my head that would have been forced to quite in shame if they pulled the same stunt at any age.

[dino7c]

If I found out a friend of my called someone the Nword and lost their job I would be disappointed but wouldn't shame them on national tv because the media is looking for blood. I think any potential future hires would be happy to see Tre didn't totally throw Peters under the bus just to take all heat off himself

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I simply cant wrap my head around this thought process.

How, 10 years after the fact, was Brad Treliving supposed to know what Bill Peters said to a hockey player in Illinois one morning after practice? How is this in ANY way attached to BT other than hiring a guy who he knew only as a hockey coach?

I really don't know what people expect...like should BT have contacted every single player that Bill Peters ever coached or every single person he ever worked with and ask them "did you ever hear BP utter racist words or see him kicking a player in the back"?

I mean I just dont get it.

How does he not own it? He has handled the fallout well, but for a guy that talks and talks about process he seemed to really put himself out on a limb by not even interviewing other candidates and specifically targeting Peters.

When the guy he specifically targeted turns out to be a huge PR disaster for the team, he owns that. Peters is his hire. I'm not saying he should be fired or anything, but the buck stops with him on that hiring. Peters was his guy, and his guy blew up into a PR disaster for the organization.

His handling of the PR disaster has been good, but there's no way Treliving comes out smelling purely of roses.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I understand he was restricted in what he could say from both a legal perspective as well as a public relations perspective.

I get he can't and shouldn't speak to any specifics.

I think there was more to be said on how they plan to do things moving forward and about the positive steps they can take right now to address any shortcomings in either their hiring practices or how the organization views inclusivity and the current hockey culture.

Brad had no issue spelling out that he did a 'full scrub', his due diligence and spoke with previous employers about Peters, so I don't buy that he couldn't also make mention of other aspects of the hiring process.

I understand he doesn't want to put anything out there, but he was very quick to defend their hiring process, and for me, that was very CYA.

OK - thanks for that.

He did say that from any event one learns, and that in the days to come they will re-evaluate how they manage their hiring (or words to that effect). He sidestepped the question about the Canes and Hawks (wisely - the NHL will have to deal with them, methinks!) and kept on message about the team's approach moving forward. I really didn't see anything to complain about there.

The problem - thankfully - wasn't in the Flames organization. And there is only so much due diligence one can do in a hiring situation. Former employers will only say so much (don't forget - they are ALL competing organizations, too....), and one cannot rely on stories, hearsay and other lovely tidbits, no matter how juicy they might be. They might all be crap, too.

As a GM you're trying to find someone who can direct, push, prod, shove, encourage and ultimately get positive results. Those people don't tend to be ones who mollycoddle their charges. They also don't need to belittle them, bully them or harass them...but they might be tough and hard on them.

At what point does "hard" transform to "bully"? Eye of the beholder? Are some players whinier than others? It ain't easy...

[TheIronMaiden]

Bill Peters resigns 15th in wins as a coach for the Flames out of 19. He was 16th in games behind the bench. His points percentage is second in franchise history with .614, the only coach with a better percentage was Terry Crisp .669.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The same media guys that laughed and put the video of Laviolette punching a player in the head on blooper reels are now outraged at the Carolina stories.

Marc Crawford choked and hit players and then was doing color on HNIC the next year.

These guys are snakes just loving the drama

Yeah the talk of the kicking and physical abuse is not that out of the norm I think.

In his book Noodles mentioned that Darryl Sutter would kick the guys in the ass on the bench to get them going if they were having a bad game. Granted that would have been 10-15 years ago now so a lot has changed.

The issue here is the racism. And it’s not just using that word but then also pushing to have Aliu’s career potentially derailed due to that by pushing to send him down.

[timbit]

Stan Bowman and Ron Francis will shortly be very much under the gun, for their lack of responsible rebukes and suitable justice towards Peters’ horrible verbal and physical actions with player(s) in Rockford and Carolina.

[Flame On]

Why are we using politicians as a frickin example about employment in general and employees, they're about the worst example. They are voted in largely and sometimes they're voted in by party members not even by the public. They have a whole party behind them not just themselves and spin machines and communications officers. ALL parties.
So it doesn't make sense to whine that some other dude didn't get fired in this example.
Sheesh!

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

How does he not own it? He has handled the fallout well, but for a guy that talks and talks about process he seemed to really put himself out on a limb by not even interviewing other candidates and specifically targeting Peters.

When the guy he specifically targeted turns out to be a huge PR disaster for the team, he owns that. Peters is his hire. I'm not saying he should be fired or anything, but the buck stops with him on that hiring. Peters was his guy, and his guy blew up into a PR disaster for the organization.

His handling of the PR disaster has been good, but there's no way Treliving comes out smelling purely of roses.

He already knew and worked with Peters from Team Canada. He also stated he did do lots of back ground checks before hiring him and talking to past employers and players. The fact that this incident never came up is not on BT in any way shape or form.

Im not sure how this is a "PR disaster" for the team either. Does the general public find itself looking at the Flames and thinking " that's a racist organization" so I cannot support them? Or are they looking at Bill Peters and thinking that maybe its all his fault he finds himself in this situation and has nothing to do with the Flames, particularly when the whole thing happened when Peters didnt even work for them?

The Blackhawks are who should be getting their feet held to the fire here if anyone should, at least for the allegations from aliu. Ron Francis is in a world of trouble right now as well after the statement from Brindamour yesterday is my guess.

But Brad Treliving? Nope...he has done nothing but handle this the exact way it had to be from the get go. No radio silence, no hiding from the media, he just did things in a calm and timely manner that culminated with what we just saw from the Dome. Kudos to him for all of it.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Why are we using politicians as a frickin example about employment in general and employees, they're about the worst example. They are voted in largely and sometimes they're voted in by party members not even by the public. They have a whole party behind them not just themselves and spin machines and communications officers. ALL parties.
So it doesn't make sense to whine that some other dude didn't get fired in this example.
Sheesh!

You don't think the leader of a country should be held to a higher standard than a sports coach?

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

My computer generated closed caption called him Hakeem Aloof.

Damn, I have a new name for signing group birthday cards now.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by zamler

You don't think the leader of a country should be held to a higher standard than a sports coach?

I'd settle for the same standard.

[flames_fan_down_under]

The continuous "but Trudeau" takes are meaningless and exhausting.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by zamler

You don't think the leader of a country should be held to a higher standard than a sports coach?

Yes he should but it really has nothing to do with this thread. Let's not turn this into a political debate.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by zamler

You don't think the leader of a country should be held to a higher standard than a sports coach?

Not going to get dragged into a Trudeau butt hurt whine fest.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes he should but it really has nothing to do with this thread. Let's not turn this into a political debate.

It has everything to do with this thread we're talking about racist actions and consequences.

Originally Posted by Flame On

Not going to get dragged into a Trudeau butt hurt whine fest.

Then don't respond or post.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

OK - thanks for that.

He did say that from any event one learns, and that in the days to come they will re-evaluate how they manage their hiring (or words to that effect). He sidestepped the question about the Canes and Hawks (wisely - the NHL will have to deal with them, methinks!) and kept on message about the team's approach moving forward. I really didn't see anything to complain about there.

Actually, small disagreement. He specifically mentioned talking to bills previous employers which I thought was surprising. I believe he also specifically mentioned the canes but might have misheard or am mistaken.

One thing he didn't mention? Talking to any players, which looks to be the obvious glaring oversight and I think now probably a source of professional embarrassment. Maybe it was an accidental immission, but if I was looking to provide a bit of absolution for a problematic hire, that would be very high on my list of things to say.

Maybe he didn't talk to any players. Maybe he did and they said Peter's was fine. Maybe he did and the players said he wasn't fine and Treliving didn't care. Everyone hates a former boss. But not caring what the players think is a huge part of the culture needing change.

You'll be damn sure he cares now.

The problem - thankfully - wasn't in the Flames organization.

THE problem didn't happen in the flames organization, but a player agent literally accused Peters, in public of 'trying to run' his client 'out of town', and a prominent free agent signing was traded his first year into a 5 year deal after a public dispute with the same coach. I don't think we can credibly speculate there were no issues with Peters in the flames locker room in terms of bullying or abuse.

As a GM you're trying to find someone who can direct, push, prod, shove, encourage and ultimately get positive results. Those people don't tend to be ones who mollycoddle their charges. They also don't need to belittle them, bully them or harass them...but they might be tough and hard on them.

At what point does "hard" transform to "bully"? Eye of the beholder? Are some players whinier than others? It ain't easy...

This is the culture change discussion in it's basic essence, and because I've never played pro or semi pro, it's difficult for me to weigh in definitively.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Why are we using politicians as a frickin example about employment in general and employees, they're about the worst example. They are voted in largely and sometimes they're voted in by party members not even by the public. They have a whole party behind them not just themselves and spin machines and communications officers. ALL parties.
So it doesn't make sense to whine that some other dude didn't get fired in this example.
Sheesh!

I cant think of a better example of the court of public opinion being exercised than an election.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by zamler

You don't think the leader of a country should be held to a higher standard than a sports coach?

I do, but obviously, many people (maybe the majority) in Canada, the USA, and the UK don’t. But I don’t think politicians’ morals, or lack of same, are particularly relevant to this thread.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by zamler

It has everything to do with this thread we're talking about racist actions and consequences.

Then don't respond or post.

I will respond or post if its to the matter at hand. But thanks.