Bill Peters' open apology to Treliving. UPD: Aliu responds

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I'm genuinely curious if there are a lot of people that would agree with people being fired with cause for those types of past actions with different organizations. That seems like a bad idea to me, but I'm open to hearing other views.

I think you need to define "those type of past actions." Let's not downplay what Peters did so we can try to find a false equivalent with something else. This wasn't an off-coloured joke, or some language that's only recently become charged. This wasn't the work of a naive kid who was trying to be edgy before he knew the word was truly wrong. You can't even blame culture or upbringing and times changing. It was 2008 and a 45 year old piece of #### directed the N word at a black person under his authority. This isn't a slippery slope of people being fired for liking Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure despite the use of "fag" in the movie or having to worry because you read To Kill a Mockingbird outloud in class. This was just pure unadulterated racism with a word that everyone knew was off-limits to Peters. No one needs to worry if they haven't yelled the N word at a black person.

Actions have consequences. As far as I'm concerned it's unjust that he is being fired because he simply never should have had the job in the first place. He should have had his career ruined when he had Aliu sent down without truly trying to rectify the situation he caused.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Housley4Prez

Here's an example of how it could've gotten way out of hand quickly...

First of all, the fact that it could have been worse does not in ANY WAY absolve Peters for his gross misbehaviour in this situation. It is not even worth considering.

...In a moment of extreme frustration, Peters lashes out against the music, pointing out his issue with the lyrics. He does it in an incredibly insensitive way, but he does it.

It could very well be that Peters saw what he was saying as an attack on the music itself.

But to Aliu, when he heard "turn off that n----- music" he took it as "turn off that music, n-----"... which left him in shock. Rightfully so.

Oblivious, Peters could have feasibly seen this as his way of showing how offensive the music was to himself. Who knows?

Seen as an attack on the music itself? I think context is everything, here, and especially when carefully considering the reported verbiage in its entirety:

Originally Posted by Akikm Aliu

“He walked in before a morning pre-game skate and said ‘Hey Akim, I’m sick of you playing that n----- s---,’ ” Aliu told TSN, with Peters, who was then the Ice Hogs head coach, referring to Aliu’s selection of hip-hop music. “He said ‘I’m sick of hearing this n-----s f------ other n-----s in the ass stuff.’
“He then walked out like nothing ever happened. You could hear a pin drop in the room, everything went dead silent. I just sat down in my stall, didn’t say a word.”

I have deliberately set my focus elsewhere on what Peters said to make a point: in no way can one separate what Peters said from whom he addressed. He singled out Akim Aliu—a black man—for his selection of music, and identified it as "n***** ####." There just is not any ambiguity there. Aliu further reported that Peters called him into his office to talk about the incident privately. This action in itself only serves to show that he definitely understood the connection between the music and the player. How could he not?

Originally Posted by Housley4Prez

Should he be fired? Absolutely. No walking back from this.

But there's also a very plausible explanation for this that allows both parties to be harmed by a miscommunication.

The explanation you have offered is not remotely plausible, as I have demonstrated by taking into consideration the entire citation, and its context.

Now, the letter states that he apologized to the room. Aliu didn't mention that in the tweets nor in the TSN article.

It's arguably more likely that Peters stupidly called n----- music, on account of the amount of times that word was used in the song, than some deep seated evil racist rage.

No. This is not remotely likely. Or rather, it is not remotely likely that Peters was oblivious to the implications of singling out Aliu for his choice of music, and then describing it as "n***** ####."

Remember the episode of the Simpsons where Homer grabbed that gummy Venus de Milo off the babysitter's butt... and the whole world came down on Homer thinking he was some sort of monster?

Now, this doesn't explain the kicking and the punching... but what does wrap it together is a man with anger management issues, and woefully inept racial sensitivity.

That most certainly is part of the story, but you are also omitting an important part of this whole discussion. Aliu came out in the first place not call attention to the usage of racist language in hockey. He was prompted by reports of abuse surrounding Mike Babcock, and wanted to draw attention to an instance of abuse he suffered at the hand of Bill Peters, who went on to take actions which further damaged Aliu's hockey career.

The problem with Bill Peters and others like him is not [just] racism and anger management. IT'S BULLYING, AND THE ABUSE OF AUTHORITY.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I thought you could hear the dog whistle? Is that not the case?

See the irony of this "dog whistle" business is that it's supposed to be something said with subversive racist undertones only intended to be understood by fellow racists. But why is it so easily identifiable by supposed non-racists? Not a very good dog whistle if you ask me.

But your link appears to make the case that because there are no reliable statistics to support attacks on white farmers and the fact that the crime rates in South Africa have (also?) increased -- then it must not be happening and is just white nationalist propaganda. Not very convincing if you ask me. To use another "dog whistle", it would be like saying because there were a lot of people being killed in WWII Europe and there weren't reliable statistics at the time, the Holocaust must not have happened.

I think there's a canyon between "it didn't happen" and "it's been exagerrated". And a provide a relevant Wikipedia article which touches on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_...n_farm_attacks

Here's another link

But if we compare crime rates for South Africans generally and for farmers, we find that farmers are far less likely to be the targets of violent crime than the general population. That’s true both for murders and for other “contact crimes” such as burglary, sexual assault and attempted murder.

There’s no data substantiating the targeting of white South Africans

To be sure, these activists do not all explicitly talk about “white genocide.” But they argue that white South Africans are uniquely targeted for violence, and deploy anecdotes and exaggeration to convince their audiences that theirs is a civil rights cause — despite the fact that South Africa farmers are, on average, safer than the South African population at large.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...u-whole-truth/

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Peters is as good as gone as coach of the Flames. Aliu isn't stopping though. Apology not accepted. He doesn't want money. Maybe he just wants players to start taking a knee for the anthem. And then sign a deal with Nike?

[Housley4Prez]

Originally Posted by nik-

You claimed he was quoting the song, which is a totally invented scenario. So don't do that. I will refrain from ascribing malice when you stop using weasel words.

Aliu told TSN, with Peters, who was then the Ice Hogs head coach, referring to Aliu’s selection of hip-hop music. “He said ‘I’m sick of hearing this n-----s f------ other n-----s in the ass stuff.’

What do you call this?

Now, again... go and read these lyrics, and tell me that there's no way that someone could hear a song like this, and then complain about the lyrics in the way Bill Peters did in a moment of rage.

The song repeatedly has the words "n-----s", "f------" and "ass" in it. It's just one example of a possible song in question.

Again, if it was something like Lionel Ritchie or Usher being played and Peters said that, then by all means, call the man a monster.

It's not an invented scenario. It's plausible. Lil Jon was quite popular at that time, as were many others with lyrics of that nature.

[afc wimbledon]

Farmers in Canada are targets for crime, its not because they are white, it's because they have expensive stuff in sheds and live a long way away from help

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Housley4Prez

What do you call this?

Now, again... go and read these lyrics, and tell me that there's no way that someone could hear a song like this, and then complain about the lyrics in the way Bill Peters did in a moment of rage.

The song repeatedly has the words "n-----s", "f------" and "ass" in it. It's just one example of a possible song in question.

Again, if it was something like Lionel Ritchie or Usher being played and Peters said that, then by all means, call the man a monster.

It's not an invented scenario. It's plausible. Lil Jon was quite popular at that time, as were many others with lyrics of that nature.

You're debating a theoretical "if" it was this song vs facts that we already know. Your theory is based on nothing when the facts are that Bill Peters said Hey Akim, I’m sick of you playing that n----- s---

You jump to Bill Peters' defense with song lyrics and YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT'S THE SONG THAT WAS BEING PLAYED.

And it doesn't even matter. EVEN IF he was playing Lil' Jon, it's still racist!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Housley4Prez

What do you call this?

Now, again... go and read these lyrics, and tell me that there's no way that someone could hear a song like this, and then complain about the lyrics in the way Bill Peters did in a moment of rage.

The song repeatedly has the words "n-----s", "f------" and "ass" in it. It's just one example of a possible song in question.

Again, if it was something like Lionel Ritchie or Usher being played and Peters said that, then by all means, call the man a monster.

It's not an invented scenario. It's plausible. Lil Jon was quite popular at that time, as were many others with lyrics of that nature.

Just stop. No one is interested in your invented scenarios that excuse or minimize what Peters did. Frankly it’s starting to look bad on you. None of the scenarios your present make the use of the word acceptable.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Housley4Prez

Now, again... go and read these lyrics, and tell me that there's no way that someone could hear a song like this, and then complain about the lyrics in the way Bill Peters did in a moment of rage.

Of course someone could complain about it. It still makes them racist if they need to resort to yelling out the word in frustration. If you're white, don't use the word. It isn't hard or complicated. If someone feels the need to use the N word when they're angry, that's not on anyone but themselves. But keep trying to justify the actions of a racist because you totally aren't coming off as racist yourself.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf_Phan

Peters is as good as gone as coach of the Flames. Aliu isn't stopping though. Apology not accepted. He doesn't want money. Maybe he just wants players to start taking a knee for the anthem. And then sign a deal with Nike?

That wasn't an apology to Aliu...

You're being intentionally dense.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Housley4Prez

What do you call this?

Now, again... go and read these lyrics, and tell me that there's no way that someone could hear a song like this, and then complain about the lyrics in the way Bill Peters did in a moment of rage.

The song repeatedly has the words "n-----s", "f------" and "ass" in it. It's just one example of a possible song in question.

Again, if it was something like Lionel Ritchie or Usher being played and Peters said that, then by all means, call the man a monster.

It's not an invented scenario. It's plausible. Lil Jon was quite popular at that time, as were many others with lyrics of that nature.

It doesn't change anything or make it ok, I love Chris Rock but I am not ever going to quote his classic n versus black people, me quoting it is wrong as a white guy.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I thought you could hear the dog whistle? Is that not the case?

See the irony of this "dog whistle" business is that it's supposed to be something said with subversive racist undertones only intended to be understood by fellow racists. But why is it so easily identifiable by supposed non-racists? Not a very good dog whistle if you ask me.

But your link appears to make the case that because there are no reliable statistics to support attacks on white farmers and the fact that the crime rates in South Africa have (also?) increased -- then it must not be happening and is just white nationalist propaganda. Not very convincing if you ask me. To use another "dog whistle", it would be like saying because there were a lot of people being killed in WWII Europe and there weren't reliable statistics at the time, the Holocaust must not have happened.

I think there's a canyon between "it didn't happen" and "it's been exagerrated". And a provide a relevant Wikipedia article which touches on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_...n_farm_attacks

I never called it a dog whistle, I said it was made up stuff that white nationalists/supremacists spread on the internet.

Attacks increased for one year. The number of attacks last year was below the mean for attacks since 2000. That is total attacks on all farmers. Of course these attacks are on white and black farmers. The murder rate was lower than the year before (for white and black farmers). There is no evidence that this is even happening (targeted attacks and murders against white farmers because they are white), you just pulled it out of thin air.

The article you provided basically reiterates that this claim is bull#### made up by white nationalists/supremacists.

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

That wasn't an apology to Aliu...

You're being intentionally dense.

Sorry, I've been unintentionally reading a lot of CNN lately and my mind is warped. Please accept my apology.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

For clarity, Peters allegedly said "N-Sh**" not N-"Music".

While I wouldn't say it's "more likely", it is certainly a legitimate possibility.

No difference.

[calgaryfox]

10 years ago, in house issues were resolved in house and the outcome stayed in house. Nowadays the decision to hang draw and quarter someone is discussed ad nauseum on Social media by people relying on reports of what "he said, she said" and filling in the blanks where required. None of us will be attending the personal hearings but there are always those who feel the need to presume someone's guilt by nothing more than media bites.

Here's an idea, lets go back to the witchfinder general days ...If he drowns....he was innocent. If he floats he is guilty.

[8sPOT]

I agree Peters is good as gone, and I think thats the right thing to do.

What I don't get is why do some hip hop artists have to use the N word in their songs? Always seemed strange to me even going back to the NWA days. I've been to karaoke before where a white girl went up on stage and did a rap song with a bunch N bombs in it. Was super weird and awkward to me.

Even now at work this week, people keep repeating verbatim what Peters said to Aliu when discussing this story. They dont say n-word, or n-bomb but the actual word. So weird to me. Like just dont say it, in any context.

Why cant that word just go away? We don't call indigenous 'Indians' anymore even though that was accepted back in my day.

Anyways, its a taboo word for me and I dont understand why its still a relevant word today. Not trying to derail the thread by any means, just my 2 cents.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by calgaryfox

10 years ago, in house issues were resolved in house and the outcome stayed in house. Nowadays the decision to hang draw and quarter someone is discussed ad nauseum on Social media by people relying on reports of what "he said, she said" and filling in the blanks where required. None of us will be attending the personal hearings but there are always those who feel the need to presume someone's guilt by nothing more than media bites.

Here's an idea, lets go back to the witchfinder general days ...If he drowns....he was innocent. If he floats he is guilty.

Dude your first sentence is clearly false given all the accusations that have come out.

Try again.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by calgaryfox

10 years ago, in house issues were resolved in house and the outcome stayed in house. Nowadays the decision to hang draw and quarter someone is discussed ad nauseum on Social media by people relying on reports of what "he said, she said" and filling in the blanks where required. None of us will be attending the personal hearings but there are always those who feel the need to presume someone's guilt by nothing more than media bites.

Here's an idea, lets go back to the witchfinder general days ...If he drowns....he was innocent. If he floats he is guilty.

Yeah except teammates have corroborated the reports so it’s not simply he said, he said.

Bad take.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by calgaryfox

10 years ago, in house issues were resolved in house and the outcome stayed in house. Nowadays the decision to hang draw and quarter someone is discussed ad nauseum on Social media by people relying on reports of what "he said, she said" and filling in the blanks where required. None of us will be attending the personal hearings but there are always those who feel the need to presume someone's guilt by nothing more than media bites.

Is this okay with you? Private discipline for reprehensible or criminal behaviour is an effective way of ensuring the continuation of abuse and does little more than enable the abuser and communicate toleration for terrible behaviour to the victim.

It's distasteful and ugly, but the only way the culture changes is for its warts to be exposed under a blinding spotlight so they can be eradicated.

Here's an idea, lets go back to the witchfinder general days ...If he drowns....he was innocent. If he floats he is guilty.

Do you actually believe this contributes to this discussion at all? Gross.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by calgaryfox

10 years ago, in house issues were resolved in house and the outcome stayed in house. Nowadays the decision to hang draw and quarter someone is discussed ad nauseum on Social media by people relying on reports of what "he said, she said" and filling in the blanks where required. None of us will be attending the personal hearings but there are always those who feel the need to presume someone's guilt by nothing more than media bites.

Here's an idea, lets go back to the witchfinder general days ...If he drowns....he was innocent. If he floats he is guilty.

It's been confirmed by multiple people. It's not he said/she said.