GT: Canadian Federal Election 2019

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Locke

Theres also that whole 'Sovereign Nation vs. Province in Confederation' rigmarole we'd have to concern ourselves with, but lets not let reality get in the way of otherwise perfectly good outrage.

Details, details.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by zamler

The way Norway handles their oil production and revenue is exactly what we should be doing.

In Norway, the industry is pretty much nationalized. The country owns the oil reserves and the company that has a monopoly is 2/3rds state owned.

Sounds good to me.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

True, we should:
- Build a refinery in AB and ensure the government has an equity stake, stop/limit imports of foreign oil and rely primarily on our own refined oil
- Have the AB government-run an O&G company and allocate a majority of the licenses to them
- Carefully conserve and manage the resource by limiting production
- Re-invigorate the Heritage Fund
- Implement a carbon tax
- Raise royalties

The "way Norway handles it" is ideal. That said, I think many elements of that are unpalatable to Albertans.

I don't think any plan that had a chance of actually being implemented, would be unpalatable to most Albertans.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by zamler

So consume less what are you waiting for.

I partially agree with this, but on EV's there are not enough being made to make more than a blip of an impact.

for what its worth, i already do. we sold our other car, we barely use the one car we have left, bike to work a lot, walk to the grocery store and shop in places within walking distance, even in the winter time. we have started buying less meat and getting energy efficient appliances/lightbulbs

admittedly i did none of this for the environment, it was all purely selfish reasons to reduce costs so I can retire faster but helping the environment is a nice bonus to it

most people cant be assed to not fire up their 2 ton gas guzzling SUV to make a 4 kilometer round trip to walmart to pick up a few ounces of plastic they will use once and throw out imediately after, which is why a carbon tax is needed to curb this type of behavior

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Locke

Theres also that whole 'Sovereign Nation vs. Province in Confederation' rigmarole we'd have to concern ourselves with, but lets not let reality get in the way of otherwise perfectly good outrage.

The solution to that is to change the rules of Confederation. Quebec did it, and we can too.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't think any plan that had a chance of actually being implemented, would be unpalatable to most Albertans.

You don't think the government forming a crown corp and subsequently expropriate 2/3rds of the privately owned/operated sites would maybe upset a few people?

[stang]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Well Trudeau just said they will go forward with TMX.

KILLING ALBERTA!

He also said his government spoils be open, honest and transparent. We all know how that went.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by stang

He also said his government spoils be open, honest and transparent. We all know how that went.

Something, something, electoral reform? Did we ever get anywhere with that? I dont think we did.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You don't think the government forming a crown corp and subsequently appropriating 2/3rds of the privately owned/operated sites would maybe upset a few people?

Depends - is the crown corp buying or expropriating the assets? Right now, most assets are almost worthless. Selling them at a reasonable valuation would not be an unattractive prospect for a lot of people right now.

And the crown corp still needs a bunch of service corps to feed it. You know... jobs and businesses (as opposed to layoffs)

The way most people simply say 'no, that won't work, it's too hard' instead of trying to work towards solutions, is mind numbingly frustrating

[nik-]

PetroCan was the epitome of bloated oil company. It's better to just take the cut of royalties and let competent people run it.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by stone hands

most people cant be assed to not fire up their 2 ton gas guzzling SUV to make a 4 kilometer round trip to walmart to pick up a few ounces of plastic they will use once and throw out imediately after, which is why a carbon tax is needed to curb this type of behavior

Can't tax gas hog SUVs into oblivion that would kill the Ontario auto sector.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Depends - is the crown corp buying or expropriating the assets? Right now, most assets are almost worthless. Selling them at a reasonable valuation would not be an unattractive prospect for a lot of people right now.

And the crown corp still needs a bunch of service corps to feed it. You know... jobs and businesses (as opposed to layoffs)

The way most people simply say 'no, that won't work, it's too hard' instead of trying to work towards solutions, is mind numbingly frustrating

Well that's why I said expropriate (or "appropriate" because I'm a dumbass) instead of buying the sites. I'm sure people would apoplectic if that happened, not least of all because no private company would probably ever invest in Alberta O&G again, but I digress.

Purchasing sites while their value is low is an interesting scenario to consider. A crown corp could theoretically operate at a loss for a few years until TMX gets built, while probably also keeping some of the service corps fed enough to stay afloat. The question would be, once TMX is up and running, would the profits offset the losses incurred during that time?

[stang]

Should open an auto plant in Alberta...

[MelBridgeman]

Can you even build another refinery in the Western World with all the uncertainty and the unlikelihood of return on investment? Norway has a few massive advantages over Alberta

1. No lower mainland/Vancouver Island between them and tidewater
2. No Quebec between them and tidewater
3. A small country with less infrastructure to upkeep (compared to Canada..heck even Alberta) (no source)

And yes high taxes allow profits to be stashed away.

[Locke]

Ugh...can we stop with Norway please? I hate Norway. We should just invade Norway and be done with it already.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Can you even build another refinery in the Western World with all the uncertainty and the unlikelihood of return on investment? Norway has a few massive advantages over Alberta

1. No lower mainland/Vancouver Island between them and tidewater
2. No Quebec between them and tidewater
3. Small country with very little infrastructure to up keep

And yes high taxes which allows profits to be stashed away.

Could we force Canadians to buy Canadian oil through something similar to supply management like we do with dairy? That's the only possible way I see it being feasible.

[Ozy_Flame]

I hope all the nationalized/provincialized employees who come from Suncor, CNRL, Encana and everywhere else are happy to take a pay cut since public sector wages have been maligned as bloated and too generous in this economy

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Can you even build another refinery in the Western World with all the uncertainty and the unlikelihood of return on investment? Norway has a few massive advantages over Alberta

1. No lower mainland/Vancouver Island between them and tidewater
2. No Quebec between them and tidewater
3. A small country with less infrastructure to upkeep (compared to Canada..heck even Alberta) (no source)

And yes high taxes allow profits to be stashed away.

Aren't we already under utilizing the refineries that we have?


Why is any private concern going to spend the billions to build a refinery?


the last thing that we should do is allow the government to run any kind of expensive or complex company, they suck at.


unless Quebec signs off on Energy East, there will be no buy in from private concerns.


Alberta should start building cars and nuclear weapons.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

in addition to what has already been said about the CT my thought is that the tax at it's current level really only takes some money out of people's pockets. If this tax is truly designed to change behavior then make a liter of gas $3. Make it so that people have to make hard decisions about filling up or heating their home. Walking or driving? Figuring out if you can get little timmy to hcoey/dance/music via bus or if you need to car pool with 18 other kids to save some gas money.

I get the sentiment, but focusing in personal vehicles is such a misguided approach. ~20% of GHG emissions come from personal transportation.
Changing behaviours is absolutely the right, and only thing to do, but that is approach would hardly accomplish anything.
We absolutely can not have 2500-3000sq.ft houses, A/C in 30*, model year appliances, fast fashions, warehouses worth of products, Tim Horton’s McDonalds in every block, yet point to the car in our driveway as the impetus of change.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I hope all the nationalized/provincialized employees who come from Suncor, CNRL, Encana and everywhere else are happy to take a pay cut since public sector wages have been maligned as bloated and too generous in this economy

I'd gladly trade a pay reduction for a guaranteed pension and not having to worry about performance or losing my job. 5 years into the oil bust, 7 rounds of layoffs survived, how many public sector workers can say the same?