GT: Canadian Federal Election 2019

[Slava]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

My biggest surprise during the coverage was CBC saying TMX was already approved by the government so it doesn't need a revote once it passes the courts even if the Liberals were in a spot where they needed an NDP coalition.

Which leads me to question why everyone was up in arms over this. Are you thinking the Liberals are going to junk it now just to be dicks about it?

Its fear-mongering, plain and simple. Voters in Alberta and Saskatchewan ate that up though, and it worked out perfectly here.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Slava

Its fear-mongering, plain and simple. Voters in Alberta and Saskatchewan ate that up though, and it worked out perfectly here.

I mean it could also just be looking at their record to this point and seeing a fat 0/2 with the third and final hanging in the balance.

But no, you're right, just fear-mongering.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

I mean it could also just be looking at their record to this point and seeing a fat 0/2 with the third and final hanging in the balance.

But no, you're right, just fear-mongering.

Can you clarify this point? I don't get it.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The US doesn't need Canadian oil any more. And their producers would object big time to the addition of competition.

Not really. The U.S. loves buying Canadian oil at a discount and has for decades. I don't see that changing, especially considering 95% of our oil still goes to the states to begin with. They definitely need our oil in a big way and look no further than the ongoing battles to get US pipelines built (Keystone, energy east). Whether they are dead or not means little, the demand is certainly there.

[FireFly]

When do we get our $2000 camping cheques?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Can you clarify this point? I don't get it.

There's been literally zero progress made on our ability to transport our product. It's actually gone in reverse. And now it's just fear-mongering to not believe they're going to get anything done in their next term?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by nik-

I mean it could also just be looking at their record to this point and seeing a fat 0/2 with the third and final hanging in the balance.

But no, you're right, just fear-mongering.

Well it's fear-mongering because there are no more votes on that topic. So unless you think there is something coming that would alter that, and that the Liberals would completely change their tune now, there's not much that can be undone there.

There are going to be legal challenges, and hopefully we win those. But the truth is, if we're not happy with how that proceeds, the Liberals are in a much weaker position than before to be pushed into proceeding in a more forthright manner.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Not really. The U.S. loves buying Canadian oil at a discount and has for decades. I don't see that changing, especially considering 95% of our oil still goes to the states to begin with.

If Alberta is absorbed by the US it's US oil.

[The Big Chill]

I don't really get why so many people are directing their anger at Canadian voters and not the Conservative Party itself. The vote 4 years ago was an incredibly clear message that they had fallen so far behind the majority of voters' opinions on social issues that they simply weren't a viable option for many people. At the time I actually thought it would be a positive situation, to let the Libs have 4 years and the Conservatives tuck their tails and come back with much more progressive ideas on social issues.

But here we are 4 years later, the Conservatives haven't changed a bit, and voters are unwilling to move on those same social issues. All the anger should be directed at the Conservative Party for not getting their #### together and making even a half-assed effort at trying to represent the majority of Canada's beliefs on social issues.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by nik-

There's been literally zero progress made on our ability to transport our product. It's actually gone in reverse. And now it's just fear-mongering to not believe they're going to get anything done in their next term?

There was no "fear mongering" about bureaucratic incompetence though. There was, however, fear mongering about an NDP-Liberal coalition cancelling the pipe line.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well it's fear-mongering because there are no more votes on that topic. So unless you think there is something coming that would alter that, and that the Liberals would completely change their tune now, there's not much that can be undone there.

There are going to be legal challenges, and hopefully we win those. But the truth is, if we're not happy with how that proceeds, the Liberals are in a much weaker position than before to be pushed into proceeding in a more forthright manner.

I mean sure, no more votes. Nothing has been built and they have a record of not getting anything built and have also implemented a law to basically hamstring the future ability for anything to get built.

Sorry, it's not irrational to check the "doubt" box when it comes to your party.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

The separatism mentality is flooding my Facebook feed right now. I’m sure a lot of it is reactionary BS but it’s still quite amazing how many seemingly rational people can lose their minds so quickly.

Originally Posted by Wormius

Yeah, a lot of people seem to forget that Quebec had leverage. It has access to Hudson's Bay and the St. Lawrence.


Alberta can maybe roll barrels of oil down the Bow River or N. Saskatchewan and hope for the best.

I get the frustration and sentiment though. Alberta is not respected in parliament since no party except for one is aligned with the province's best interest. They feel Alberta is Canada's bitch, and there's nothing they can do about it. If they feel they don't have a voice in government, leaders of other parties actively attacking the primary resource/economy through their rhetoric and actions rather than defending it and promoting enhancements, and not giving interest in attempting to benefit Albertans to gain votes, then they feel alienated, and question what they are getting from being part of Canada.

And it's not like Alberta isn't willing to give other parties a shot in this province. Liberals had 4 seats in the province in forever! It was a sign that the province was ready to start moving on from the grudge held from the past, and had faith that by voting liberals, that they would do what they can do accommodate Alberta. But with only 4 seats, it's insignificant in parliament, and with how the pipeline debacle has gone down, liberals chose to keep the pipeline in limbo, rather than seriously try to get construction started. Lots of people are skeptical the liberals actually want to build the pipeline, and will only believe it if construction actually starts. With that, any goodwill the liberals had in the province is now gone once again.

It's unfortunate that the only party the province can vote for isn't palatable for a lot outside of the prairies due to their desire to cling onto to outdated social views. If they would catch up with the times and understand that the party needs to be more moderate, they honestly should be waking up with a majority government this morning. Why they want to be stuck in the past is beyond me. It's not working, and it's never going to work.

Separation is never gonna work, but Alberta is handicapped by the current structure of government. Either way, have to find a way to make the best out of it since there's no alternative.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

There's been literally zero progress made on our ability to transport our product. It's actually gone in reverse. And now it's just fear-mongering to not believe they're going to get anything done in their next term?

Fair enough, but how is that on the Liberals and not the people who are actively opposing the project - BC, First Nations. What would the Conservatives have done differently to have more progress?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by nik-

I mean sure, no more votes. Nothing has been built and they have a record of not getting anything built and have also implemented a law to basically hamstring the future ability for anything to get built.

Sorry, it's not irrational to check the "doubt" box when it comes to your party.

Haha, my party. I have a feeling that you and I voted for the same party yesterday.

I realise that it's not actually built yet, but it's going ahead at this point. Of course there are more legal challenges, and hopefully they get quashed. But to suggest that the NDP or BQ would just crush this because they have a potential balance of power in parliament doesn't seem possible as surely the CPC and Liberals would crush any attempt at this point.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Slava

Haha, my party. I have a feeling that you and I voted for the same party yesterday.

I realise that it's not actually built yet, but it's going ahead at this point. Of course there are more legal challenges, and hopefully they get quashed. But to suggest that the NDP or BQ would just crush this because they have a potential balance of power in parliament doesn't seem possible as surely the CPC and Liberals would crush any attempt at this point.

I think the BQ would also support it as long as it gets something. But unless there's some sort of legislation bypassing the courts, they are past that point anyway.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Fair enough, but how is that on the Liberals and not the people who are actively opposing the project - BC, First Nations. What would the Conservatives have done differently to have more progress?

The Liberal government literally didn't show up for a TMX court date where they probably would have been able to kill all the objections that cropped up after the last approval. Alberta sent lawyers to the hearing and the court agreed with them on each point and killed every objection that Alberta could speak to. The Liberals decided not to show up and because of that, the court had to accept the claims and send them on. The judge even said in his decision that the government probably had strong evidence to counter the claims of inadequate consultation, but chose to withhold evidence and submissions. If they were serious about getting it built, they probably would have made the time in a few of their lawyers schedules to show up and pretend to care.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I don't really get why so many people are directing their anger at Canadian voters and not the Conservative Party itself. The vote 4 years ago was an incredibly clear message that they had fallen so far behind the majority of voters' opinions on social issues that they simply weren't a viable option for many people. At the time I actually thought it would be a positive situation, to let the Libs have 4 years and the Conservatives tuck their tails and come back with much more progressive ideas on social issues.

But here we are 4 years later, the Conservatives haven't changed a bit, and voters are unwilling to move on those same social issues. All the anger should be directed at the Conservative Party for not getting their #### together and making even a half-assed effort at trying to represent the majority of Canada's beliefs on social issues.

or go even harder right, socially regressive and anti-intellectual, it worked down south.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

The Liberal government literally didn't show up for a TMX court date where they probably would have been able to kill all the objections that cropped up after the last approval. Alberta sent lawyers to the hearing and the court agreed with them on each point and killed every objection that Alberta could speak to. The Liberals decided not to show up and because of that, the court had to accept the claims and send them on. The judge even said in his decision that the government probably had strong evidence to counter the claims of inadequate consultation, but chose to withhold evidence and submissions. If they were serious about getting it built, they probably would have made the time in a few of their lawyers schedules to show up and pretend to care.

Could you source this one for me?

[Ashasx]

Really frustrating to see a lot of this sentiment from the media today

https://twitter.com/user/status/1186504190585163781

The idea that Alberta voted against their best interests by overwhelmingly voting Conservative, rather than the party that introduced bills C-69 and C-48.

That we're just angry because the world is passing us by.

People wonder why Albertans are frustrated. Just take a loot at the replies to that tweet to get an idea of what the rest of the country thinks of us.

[DiracSpike]

The worst part is the world is most certainly not passing us by, oil and gas are important commodities and will continue to be for decades. This isn't steel mills or auto plants despite how desperately Toronto and Montreal writers want it to be.