Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

You guys should be shocked we could trade Neil at all let alone for some toughness and veteran leadership.

Lucic will play hard and challenge players. We were so soft in the first round. Game 5 was embarrassing.

Dont disagree with any of this.

IM just of the opinion that Lucic is not the guy to make a dent in any of those deficiencies because he cannot play the game any longer. Just way way to slow and behind the play to be much more than a body on the ice.

Willing to be pleasantly surprised of course, just dont see it happening to any degree which matters.

[PepsiFree]

If Neal wanted to go to Edmonton and the relationship had soured with Peters, what makes people think Neal stood any shot at all of bouncing back in Calgary?

He didn’t earn time in the top six. He wasn’t good enough. Not just his speed, but his shot, his effort. He wasn’t just out of shape, he was mailing it in and complaining about not being given plum time.

He’s been training with McDavid for the past month. The guy wanted out, Peters felt he was no better than a 5.75M healthy scratch at the end of the year. But with all the likelihood that the Neal we saw last year was the same Neal we were going to get this year, why do people still want him around?

[iloveicedhockey]

It wasn't a bad dream. Boo urns.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

It's really funny reading these threads and trying to pinpoint where the attitude of the board shifts from "DEAR GOD NO" to "Okay, how can I justify this so that we can all be optimistic about it..."

The last few pages are so much more positive than the first bunch. It's amazing.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by mdubz

You can find a veteran with toughness for a lot less than 6 million a year out there.

Absolutley. We got ours for $5.25!

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

It's really funny reading these threads and trying to pinpoint where the attitude of the board shifts from "DEAR GOD NO" to "Okay, how can I justify this so that we can all be optimistic about it..."

The last few pages are so much more positive than the first bunch. It's amazing.

I take it more as ppl figuring out the facts about the players, their contracts and the situations between the players and the two organizations. I don’t think Treliving is an illogical person. I think he does make mistakes sometimes, but I think you have to at least give him the benefit of the doubt enough to look for the reasons why he did it. I think there are a number of them, as I’ve posted previously.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I assume that the reason this happened was an unwillingness to buy out Neal. That's the only thing that makes any sense to me.

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

Flames take the worst contact in the NHL, and have ZERO guarantees that he will waive NMC for expansion, and all they get for it is $500k in cap savings???

Let's be fair, Brent Seabrook's contract is clearly the worst. Lucic might be top 5, although maybe not even that high at 5.25 instead of 6.

Here's something funny: Capfriendly already has Lucic listed as an "A". That seems likely!

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Dont disagree with any of this.

IM just of the opinion that Lucic is not the guy to make a dent in any of those deficiencies because he cannot play the game any longer. Just way way to slow and behind the play to be much more than a body on the ice.

Willing to be pleasantly surprised of course, just dont see it happening to any degree which matters.

As slow as Lucic is , Neal is just as slow if not even slower. Thats why i believe this trade is garbage for garbage. I don't see Neal keeping up with Mcdavid. I have my doubts that even getting gifted a top 6 role, that he will get 20 goals. I could also see, if one of Edmontons youngsters actually steps up, that Neal will be playing mostly on the 3rd line of Edmonton. I know for sure Neal was not going to get 20 goals playing on the 3rd line for Calgary, and no chance he was going to get top 6 playing time with the flames.

My only complaint about the trade, is i would have hoped for a better prospect/pick for the bullet proof buyout contract of Lucic. Should have beena 2nd with no conditions or pool party. Probably would have had both if Oilers former Gm was still there.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I assume that the reason this happened was an unwillingness to buy out Neal. That's the only thing that makes any sense to me.

Let's be fair, Brent Seabrook's contract is clearly the worst. Lucic might be top 5, although maybe not even that high at 5.25 instead of 6.

Here's something funny: Capfriendly already has Lucic listed as an "A". That seems likely!

Its probably because he had an "A" in Edmonton and they haven't changed it yet.

What are thoughts that if Lucic doesn't work out.. the Flames trade him away and retain 50% of his salary. I am sure someone will take a chance on him at $2.6 mil. That would be less than what Reaves makes btw. However, this would be a lot easier if he had no NMC.

[OldSam]

Thought about it overnight. Still not that enamoured...but not knowing the "behind the scenes" stuff, I think getting rid of Neal might be the real positive in all this. Comes here to fanfare, says all the right things, does sweet nothing but complain, and makes more excuses than accepting much of the blame. I guess this means I will wait and see. At least we will see more "try" from Lucic.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Icon

So I read somewhere (maybe even on here, I can't remember at this point through all of the posts) that Lucic's NMC becomes a modified NTC before the expansion draft, and that means no protection required?... Any truth to that or was whoever wrote that wrong?

Nevermind, found it, changes the year after the expansion draft.

[bubbsy]

nope.... slept on it, still feels like a stupid move.

Trading for one of the worst contracts in the league, with the sweetner being a 3rd round pick should you flat out lose the trade ............

Just a desperate, dumb move.

would have been better off just keeping neal, waiving him, and resigning hathaway at the same contract he signed with the caps for.

treliving better have more moves coming, because his offseason thus far hasnt' made this team better, and appear like a sure fire first round knockout yet again.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

It's really funny reading these threads and trying to pinpoint where the attitude of the board shifts from "DEAR GOD NO" to "Okay, how can I justify this so that we can all be optimistic about it..."

The last few pages are so much more positive than the first bunch. It's amazing.

I think it is partly human nature to try and look for positives when shifting through the rubble of something unwanted and unexpected occurs. We acquired a player that we mocked our rivals for having. We gave up our own boat anchor to get it so really both teams are swapping turds here and the Oilers were quick to try and shine theirs up. They got a guy who has only sucked for one year where we acquired a guy who has been done for 2.

The funny thing is when both teams announced their prized signings most fans agreed that both deals would eventually look really ugly. Not many anticipated it would be year 2 of 7 for Lucic and 1 of 5 for Neal.

A change of scenery could work for both guys. Lucic sucked for 2 coaches in Edmonton and Neal really only struggled under Peters. I think it is still more likely that Neal finds his game again but if he doesn’t he is done. I do think Lucic can reinvent himself as more of a Reeves like enforcer and not worry as much about scoring 30 goals. Many of us have longed for added toughness and intimidation. It is not the best fit but it was acquired by moving our worst asset.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

As slow as Lucic is , Neal is just as slow if not even slower. Thats why i believe this trade is garbage for garbage. I don't see Neal keeping up with Mcdavid. I have my doubts that even getting gifted a top 6 role, that he will get 20 goals. I could also see, if one of Edmontons youngsters actually steps up, that Neal will be playing mostly on the 3rd line of Edmonton. I know for sure Neal was not going to get 20 goals playing on the 3rd line for Calgary, and no chance he was going to get top 6 playing time with the flames.

My only complaint about the trade, is i would have hoped for a better prospect/pick for the bullet proof buyout contract of Lucic. Should have beena 2nd with no conditions or pool party. Probably would have had both if Oilers former Gm was still there.

Nope.

If last year was a conditioning issue for Neal as has been reported many times, then there is every reason to believe he can bounce back to what he was...which was miles better than Lucic has been for years now. Neal is to blame for his conditioning, no question. That is fixable though....being slow forever is not.

Then you add in the structure of each guys contract, how they can be dealt with moving forward, the NMC, and recent production history and this has the earmarks of a debacle.

This has the potential to be a franchise crippling decision. Im a big BT guy, but this is just looking for all the world to be his biggest mistake and possibly could cost him his job.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Hathaway brought energy, speed and was an effective penalty killer. Lucic brings none of that so I don’t see him replacing Hathaway at all.

They aren't the same player, no. But they both being physicality from a 4th line winger, so the replacement tag fits.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Hathaway brought energy, speed and was an effective penalty killer. Lucic brings none of that so I don’t see him replacing Hathaway at all.

Neal brought a ton of that as well.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Nope.

If last year was a conditioning issue for Neal as has been reported many times, then there is every reason to believe he can bounce back to what he was...which was miles better than Lucic has been for years now. Neal is to blame for his conditioning, no question. That is fixable though....being slow forever is not.

Then you add in the structure of each guys contract, how they can be dealt with moving forward, the NMC, and recent production history and this has the earmarks of a debacle.

This has the potential to be a franchise crippling decision. Im a big BT guy, but this is just looking for all the world to be his biggest mistake and possibly could cost him his job.

Franchise crippling?

Trading a guy who potted 19 points and played like #### all over the rest of the ice, while the rest of the team got us to 2nd overall is “franchise crippling”?

My god man. Go for a walk.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

nope.... slept on it, still feels like a stupid move.

Trading for one of the worst contracts in the league, with the sweetner being a 3rd round pick should you flat out lose the trade ............

Just a desperate, dumb move.

would have been better off just keeping neal, waiving him, and resigning hathaway at the same contract he signed with the caps for.

treliving better have more moves coming, because his offseason thus far hasnt' made this team better, and appear like a sure fire first round knockout yet again.

The team hasn’t gotten better on paper but they haven’t gotten worse. They added an element that will help deter other teams from taking liberties on our star winger. Add in Bennett, Tkachuk, Hamonic the flames will not be pushed around and can start doing more of the pushing around.

Treliving still has work to do. Swapping Smith/Neal with Talbot/Lucic is not enough. Frolik needs to be dumped for cap space and Brodie + possible Brodie traded for a top 6 winger and/or center.

[I_H8_Crawford]

This contract screws the flames today, screws them next year and royally effs them in the ass the final 2 years.

To top that off, they gave their provincial rival a get out of jail free card for FREE.

Treliving literally made the flames worse and the Oilers better from a contract position for NOTHING.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I assume that the reason this happened was an unwillingness to buy out Neal. That's the only thing that makes any sense to me.

Let's be fair, Brent Seabrook's contract is clearly the worst. Lucic might be top 5, although maybe not even that high at 5.25 instead of 6.

Here's something funny: Capfriendly already has Lucic listed as an "A". That seems likely!

Ryan Kesler is the worst contract -- at least Seabrook is still a reasonably useful NHL player. Kesler had 8 points in 60 games last season and is at $6.8M for another three years;