Off Season Trade rumours thread - Brodie, Frolik, Stone etc. Only

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

If Lucic is traded, it's not his choice to waive or not, it's the teams. No team on earth would honor it, so if he is traded it is dead.

I'm not sure I follow. Lucic can't be traded unless he waives his NTC. And presumably he won't waive it unless the new team agrees to honour the NTC after the trade.

So, it's all in Lucic's control.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I'm not sure I follow. Lucic can't be traded unless he waives his NTC. And presumably he won't waive it unless the new team agrees to honour the NTC after the trade.

So, it's all in Lucic's control.

I think he meant AFTER a trade happens the team doesn't have to honor it anymore

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think if you removed contracts completely a d just looked 1 for 1 at Neal or Lucic, Tre/the flames would pick Lucic 8 or 9 times out of 10, going forward.

[/I]

I think I'd be 10 out of 10 the other way.

Lucic makes Neal look quick, has had a few rumoured off ice run ins, and has been sliding for a longer time period.

Then you get into can't buy out and a full nmc as you said.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I think he meant AFTER a trade happens the team doesn't have to honor it anymore

But Lucic won’t agree to the trade unless the team trading for him agrees to honour the NTC. It’s still in his control.

It’s different when a player gets traded prior to a NTC kicking in. In that case the new team does not have to honour it.

But Lucic can easily not waive the NTC unless it’s gets picked up.


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[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

But Lucic won’t agree to the trade unless the team trading for him agrees to honour the NTC. It’s still in his control.

It’s different when a player gets traded prior to a NTC kicking in. In that case the new team does not have to honour it.

But Lucic can easily not waive the NTC unless it’s gets picked up.


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True. But I would imagine that he is anxious to exit the 'Chuk

[Monahammer]

Theres no way the Oilers would risk trading rnh for Brodie. It has all the hallmarks of a larsson-hall type deal with the added potential of us burning the #### out of them multiple times a year. Holland would have to be more senile than we expect.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by chedder

Neal is trending on Twitter and one tweet talks about three way with Lucic to Vancouver, Neal to Soilers and Ericksson to Calgary. But then says we dont want Ericksson.

Yes, that would make zero sense for the Flames.

[Bleeding Red]

By now you've gotta believe Neal is motivated in the extreme to prove everybody wrong and that he can have not just a bounce back season but a dominant one just say FU to the internet.

[Erick Estrada]

IMO for the Flames to even consider taking on Lucic a player like RNH would have to be coming with him but I just don't see the fit for a lot of reasons as the combined salary of those two would be too large for the Flames to take on even sending Neal and Brodie back. Flames would have to be sending another player like Frolik to balance out the salaries and then the trade starts getting a little lopsided.

[Harry Lime]

I am not advocating trading for Lucic. In fact I think that it would be a huge mistake, and Neal has much more value. Calgary is also loaded at LW.

But Lucic has a NTC that kicks in during the 20-21 season. Right now, he has no say in where he goes. He has a full NMC that will not be honored by a team he is traded to, because of the expansion implications.

Right now, Lucic has no power over anything, other than not getting sent to the AHL, or optioned to Europe.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

By now you've gotta believe Neal is motivated in the extreme to prove everybody wrong and that he can have not just a bounce back season but a dominant one just say FU to the internet.

I can’t think of anything more motivating than: “work your ass off this Summer or we are trading you to Edmonton!”

[Mr.Coffee]

I think once a guy makes that much money in his career whatever fans hope for in terms of proving internet or fan opinions wrong is hilariously and hopelessly naive. I mean I hope I’m wrong but I don’t see Neal working that hard this summer when his career is in a death spiral and the mountain seems too big to climb.

This is why the guaranteed contracts in the NHL have a hugely detrimental effect to the business and product overall. There just isn’t a lot of motivation there once you’re all set up and taken care of. It’s few and far between and real special players, like Gaudreau, who once they get their ocean of money still put in the work ethic. I just don’t see that happen for the majority of players especially the ones that struggle to contribute and are in the twilight of their careers.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think once a guy makes that much money in his career whatever fans hope for in terms of proving internet or fan opinions wrong is hilariously and hopelessly naive. I mean I hope I’m wrong but I don’t see Neal working that hard this summer when his career is in a death spiral and the mountain seems too big to climb.

This is why the guaranteed contracts in the NHL have a hugely detrimental effect to the business and product overall. There just isn’t a lot of motivation there once you’re all set up and taken care of. It’s few and far between and real special players, like Gaudreau, who once they get their ocean of money still put in the work ethic. I just don’t see that happen for the majority of players especially the ones that struggle to contribute and are in the twilight of their careers.

Sorry, but I don't agree with this take at all. There are certainly some inherently lazy unmotivated players but I would feel confident that they are fewer in number than almost all walks of life. The amount of training and dedication required to make it in the NHL weeds out those that don't have the drive to be the best they can be. I don't believe that these driven, ultra competitive pro athletes with egos to match suddenly start mailing it in because they become millionaires.

Now, the idea that it is a game for the young and fast, and that losing a step can have a dramatic effect, is very believable.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Call me crazy, but I do think there is some logic to a Lucic - Neal swap.


The caveat to my reasoning is that no player gets better, and Lucic agrees to lift his NMC, and modify it for only "NO AHL". He can be traded in the future to any team, and will not have to be protected in the expansion draft.



Why do I feel this way?


1) Lucic out-produced Neal last season. Sure, he got about 10 more games to do it, and it was only 1 single point, but Neal would not have out-produced Lucic by much anyway if given those games.


2) Neal dragged down every line-mate he played with. If that isn't addition by subtraction, I don't know what is.


3) What did Neal do well? He didn't add to the 'team speed'. He didn't drive possession. He wasn't good at getting to prime scoring areas. He didn't make the players around him better (see point 2). He didn't help to create secondary scoring chances where he amassed a bunch of uncredited assists. He didn't help on defence. He didn't play gritty. What he did add to the team - the only thing that I have ever noticed or heard about - was how he conducted himself in the room and helped young guys like Dube. I think this is actually a VERY important element to a team, and I don't want to understate that. Lucic - when he is not scoring - will at least hit and play gritty. He also goes to the front of the net and plays havoc. He sticks up for his teammates. Is that worth that horrid contract? Absolutely NOT, but at least he does 'something'.


Now, comparing those contracts, Lucic carries an immovable cap-heavy contract that is buyout proof. Neal's is not. That's a risk. The risk is mitigated somewhat with the addition of Puljujarvi, who I think may be salvaged in the right environment.


Now, if Neal does indeed bounce-back, then this is an atrocious trade that makes one sick to their stomachs. However, I just don't buy that Neal is going to have a bounce-back season. I just don't see it. I didn't see him do much at the beginning of games in the first moments of his shifts to think that it was purely a conditioning issue. I just saw a player that continuously made the players around him worse, and couldn't be bothered to try and contribute in other areas like being more physical (a gaping hole on the Flames), or at least trying to be more competent defensively.


I hope for that turnaround this season, but at this point, I would be open for that trade as it at least starts to address an area of weakness on this team (though some more grit/toughness in the top 6 would fill that need much better). If Neal comes back and does what he did last season, I will be kicking and screaming for a Lucic swap straight up.


But hey, on the bright-side, look how well the Flames did even with an almost 6 million dollar cap hit that not only didn't help the team, but actually dragged them down. That's really good when you think about, as Edmonton fans will constantly lament that their team sucks just because of one cap hit.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think once a guy makes that much money in his career whatever fans hope for in terms of proving internet or fan opinions wrong is hilariously and hopelessly naive. I mean I hope I’m wrong but I don’t see Neal working that hard this summer when his career is in a death spiral and the mountain seems too big to climb.

This is why the guaranteed contracts in the NHL have a hugely detrimental effect to the business and product overall. There just isn’t a lot of motivation there once you’re all set up and taken care of. It’s few and far between and real special players, like Gaudreau, who once they get their ocean of money still put in the work ethic. I just don’t see that happen for the majority of players especially the ones that struggle to contribute and are in the twilight of their careers.

Isn't that contrary to everything we have heard to date this offseason out of Flames circles?

[Wolfman]

If Tre goes and gets Lucic I'll f'n snap

[MikePatton]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

If Tre goes and gets Lucic I'll f'n snap

Full moons AND bad trades

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[The Original FFIV]

Getting close to something happening? Oilers insider asking about Bennett.



Bob Stauffer
@Bob_Stauffer
U know I have always liked Sam Bennett.
Ballsy player, punches above weight class.
Flames fans.
Can he become a top 6 forward?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Getting close to something happening? Oilers insider asking about Bennett.



Bob Stauffer
@Bob_Stauffer
U know I have always liked Sam Bennett.
Ballsy player, punches above weight class.
Flames fans.
Can he become a top 6 forward?

#### off Bob.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Getting close to something happening? Oilers insider asking about Bennett.



Bob Stauffer
@Bob_Stauffer
U know I have always liked Sam Bennett.
Ballsy player, punches above weight class.
Flames fans.
Can he become a top 6 forward?

The Oilers are the last team I would want Benny playing for. He's a former teammate of Mcdavid's though, so I could see them asking for him. He would probably do well playing with Connor.....