[Trade] Canucks acquire JT Miller from Tampa for Mazanec, 3rd, and cond 1st

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Barca

Isn't that true for most teams not named Tampa though?

the only other team stacked with offensive talent is the Maple Leafs and maybe the Jets.

oh and Edler is signed for 2 years.

Thanks, oversight on my part.

To your first point I don't think it's true for most teams.

I think having depth and balance is really important (hot take) and the Canucks have basically zero depth. The key word in my post was "disparity" in talent. When your fourth best forward in terms of points is Antoine Roussel you are not going to be winning very many games. And then you're crossing your fingers for guys like Virtanen and Gaunce to magically turn into top 6 forwards I think you have real recipe for failure.

[Barca]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Thanks, oversight on my part.

To your first point I don't think it's true for most teams.

I think having depth and balance is really important (hot take) and the Canucks have basically zero depth. The key word in my post was "disparity" in talent. When your fourth best forward in terms of points is Antoine Roussel you are not going to be winning very many games. And then you're crossing your fingers for guys like Virtanen and Gaunce to magically turn into top 6 forwards I think you have real recipe for failure.

The Canucks have also been hit with some really bad luck with injuries.

Beartschi only played 26 games, Sutter (26 games), Roussel (65 games) Leivo was a mid season acquisition and Pearson was a TDL pick up.

I agree with the rest though, Eriksson sucks ass, Schaller spent most of the year in the press box, Jake and Markus were ok but not enough production.

Gaunce played 3 games for the Canucks last season and is not part of the future (he's a UFA now)

some really promising signs though.

Pearson 12 points in 19 games
Leivo 25 points in 45 games
Virtanen hit the 15 goal mark for the first time lol

Sven was actually having a good year before the injuries hit, 14 points in 26 games.

the key staying healthy for at least 60+ games...

[SportsJunky]

I thought Pearson looked pretty good once he got to Van.

[ForeverFlameFan]

The funny part is Vancouver could have just signed a winger with just money rather than picks/players. Really disappointing that they did the Lightning a solid and helping them save cap space.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

The funny part is Vancouver could have just signed a winger with just money rather than picks/players. Really disappointing that they did the Lightning a solid and helping them save cap space.

Anyone we signed would cost over $7 million for longer term.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Barca

Core Pieces: Demko, Hughes, Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson
Support cast: Virtanen, MacEwen, Gaudette, Goldobin
Prospects: Podkolzin, Hoglander, Juolevi, Madden, Rathbone, DiPietro, Karlsson.

the biggest area of weakness is obviously defence which is a work in progress, but the Canucks signed a couple college free agents late last season (Teves, Rafferty and Eliot).

this trade for Miller is to surround the young guys with some veterans that fits the teams age range going forward.

guys like Beartschi (26) Miller (26) Pearson (26) Granlund (25) Spooner (26)

Imo, the Canucks are doing a good rebuild and like JB said, this trade accelerates the process and help develop the core pieces get better.

You cant continue to draft young kids and plug them in the lineup like EDM has done with Puljuarvi and expect to get better. Thats where the Canucks and Oilers differ imo we have a better support cast in place.

if only we could get out of the Eriksson and Sutter contracts

Exactly. Vancouver didn't go out and proclaim their young players as the leaders and just put them in position to fail. They - quite like the Flames actually, and every other team in the NHL that has successfully went through a rebuild process - surrounded their young players with capable veterans that could shoulder that load.


Edmonton is the poster child for poor drafting and development. Vancouver - IMO - took a bit too long to get their act together, but it does seem more likely than not that they are coming out of a rebuild with a sustainably good team. Unless something goes wrong with their defensive development, I don't even think that is THAT glaring of a weakness at the moment. A couple of depth defencemen should be able to help patch up some leaks until those defencemen mature. It isn't like the Oilers' level bad there. It will be interesting to see how these pieces mature over the next couple of seasons, but I would be surprised if the Canucks were bottom 3 in the west this season.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Anyone we signed would cost over $7 million for longer term.

Better hope that you guys are good in 2021 then! Ottawa 2.0 would be funny.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Anyone we signed would cost over $7 million for longer term.

What's an extra $2M when you're spending nearly $20M on Eriksson, Sutter, Spooner, Schaller, and Beagle? If that amount of cap space is worth giving up a 1st rounder, perhaps Benning should've been more judicious in handing out huge money to bottom of the roster junk.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Anyone we signed would cost over $7 million for longer term.

I doubt Ferland costs that much money. Not as good as Miller but you keep the top 10 pick

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Better hope that you guys are good in 2021 then! Ottawa 2.0 would be funny.

The downside of course is that a blow up of that magnitude would probably cost Benning his job, which means there's a chance the Canucks could hire someone competent

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

The downside of course is that a blow up of that magnitude would probably cost Benning his job, which means there's a chance the Canucks could hire someone competent

Good thing Chiarelli is potentially joining the organization

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Good thing Chiarelli is potentially joining the organization

I'd like to think Vancouver is smart enough to keep Chiarelli far away from hockey ops.


Benning just trying to get his homie a paycheck.



He'll probably be a cheerleader like Jay Feaster in Tampa

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I'd like to think Vancouver is smart enough to keep Chiarelli far away from hockey ops.


Benning just trying to get his homie a paycheck.



He'll probably be a cheerleader like Jay Feaster in Tampa

Well they weren't smart enough to keep Weisbrod away from hockey ops.

[Flash Walken]

Chiarelli, Weisbrod and Benning are all basically a group package

They've been trying to put the band back together since Boston.

I feel better watching them undercut their rebuild the way Weisbrod/Feaster undercut Calgary's.

Excited for them to move more 1st and 2nd round picks for 'win now' middle of the roster players.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Chiarelli, Weisbrod and Benning are all basically a group package

They've been trying to put the band back together since Boston.

I feel better watching them undercut their rebuild the way Weisbrod/Feaster undercut Calgary's.

Excited for them to move more 1st and 2nd round picks for 'win now' middle of the roster players.

Yeah I was a little worried they were on the right path to building a good team so this weekend has been great as a Flames fan. I hope they blow huge $$$ on Myers and maybe even Ferland in the next week.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Chiarelli, Weisbrod and Benning are all basically a group package

They've been trying to put the band back together since Boston.

I feel better watching them undercut their rebuild the way Weisbrod/Feaster undercut Calgary's.

Excited for them to move more 1st and 2nd round picks for 'win now' middle of the roster players.

I have this theory that Benning and Weisbrod are desperately trying to prove they are more than amateur scouts, so they take any opportunity they can to give away draft picks

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I have this theory that Benning and Weisbrod are desperately trying to prove they are more than amateur scouts, so they take any opportunity they can to give away draft picks

I think they want to keep their jobs and showing an inpatient owner what they can do in the short term with draft picks helps because the owner has no concept of what that long term impact is.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Better hope that you guys are good in 2021 then! Ottawa 2.0 would be funny.

Again, if the Canucks some how regress that badly in two years, we have much bigger problems than this trade.


A more accurate comparison is we become the Flames 2.0 after the Hamonic deal. Only difference is, we got some lottery protection just in case.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I doubt Ferland costs that much money. Not as good as Miller but you keep the top 10 pick

Ferland's contract would look absolutely awful in a season or two. His play style is not one that ages well and he's already showing the wear and tear, similar to Lucic at that age. Ferland is a guy I'd want no part in for that kind of dollar amount.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Again, if the Canucks some how regress that badly in two years, we have much bigger problems than this trade.


A more accurate comparison is we become the Flames 2.0 after the Hamonic deal. Only difference is, we got some lottery protection just in case.

Not a lot of accuracy there by you seeing the Flames weren't a 23rd place club that had missed the playoffs four straight seasons when they made that trade. They had made the playoffs the season before the trade and were trying to go further in the playoffs not just hang in the race. Of course Glen Gulutzan had something to say about that but there's really not a lot of similarities.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Wouldn't the Canucks have had to make the playoffs this year to make it a Flames 2.0 after the Hamonic deal? Flames weren't a 23rd place club that had missed the playoffs four straight seasons when they made that trade.

Nope. The Flames made the play-offs on pure luck the year before, with underlying numbers worse than most non-play-off teams. A smart GM realizes they were playing with house money and treats the roster like a non-play-off team. The Hamonic deal was made to try and shore up that problem, and it didn't work and not one was really shocked by it (except Flames fans...).