A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[SuperMatt18]

Personally I thought the episode tonight was fine - my guess is the people with the biggest objections are those that thought Dany was the protagonist of this show when in reality this show never had a protagonist - there are no heroes in this show.

I think what the show is driving to is that when push comes to shove the characters haven’t changed that much and their core deep down traits is what is their demise.

Jamie: in the end his love for his sister was his death.

Jon: His need to always be “honest” and “truthful” will likely be his demise.

Tyrion: Deep down he believes in the good of people and that people can change (Cersei, Jamie, Dany)...probably won’t work out for him

Varys: His goal to always find who is “best” for the throne instead of staying loyal was his death

Dany: Her entire personality being tied to her being the “true heir” to the throne drove her mad once that was challenged

These have been the traits of these characters since day 1 - and now that it’s getting close to wrapping up these character traits that once made them successful are leading to stupid decisions.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

These have been the traits of these characters since day 1 - and now that it’s getting close to wrapping up these character traits that once made them successful are leading to stupid decisions.

If these qualities are innate and these characters are incapable of growing (and they had shown signs of growing and following through on their character arcs in prior seasons), then I think it's pretty easy to understand why some fans are disappointed.

[GGG]

I don’t think Dany’s Mad Queen was earned.

She just flipped and went crazy becuase Jon wouldn’t kiss his aunt so she had to rule by fear. This does not fit with the 7 seasons of building her up. Her statement before the Battle of her Mercy being her strength for future generations was completely lost when the bells rang.

This total heal turn was completely avoidable. Just have her army begin to lose and the other Armies hide behind human shields and have Dany make the difficult decision to roast civilians to win the war. The out come could be the same, the episode could have almost been the same but with much more grey as to what Dany doing was right or wrong. Instead they turned her into just the Mad Queen, As one dimensional as the night king. They took away her agency by making her just another crazy Targ who lost a coin flip.

I did like that the Valenqor prophecy came true but not in a way that would be expected. Cersei died with Jaimie’s arms around her. They also didn’t show Jaimie’s wounds long enough that the Arya faceless Jaimie kills Cersei was still in play for the first half of the scene when Jaimie found her.

[White Out 403]

Breathtaking episode. My wife and I were on the edge of the couch for the last half of the show. It really hit the mark and was just phenomenal. Jamie and Cersei dying together in embrace was perfect. Danys heel turn has been heavily built up over a while and totally expected imo.

The Hound vs the Mountain was perfect.

The good byes in the show were.... just spot on. I can't say enough how much I enjoyed the 2nd last show. Bravo. Just great.

[Johnny Makarov]

All that death for a stupid slave girl..... It was awesome!

Tyrion should have just have poisoned Dani.

So 3/8 in dragon hits last episode. 0/9 in this one. You'd think they would have gotten more shots off. haha

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If these qualities are innate and these characters are incapable of growing (and they had shown signs of growing and following through on their character arcs in prior seasons), then I think it's pretty easy to understand why some fans are disappointed.

I think that’s the thing though - these characters did change and grow but really the attributes I listed were the key core personality traits of those characters that never changed.

They maybe changed other attributes of their personalities but those core traits were always the same for these characters.

And now it’s those core traits that are leading to the characters demise.

[Hemi-Cuda]

So did Euron lose his aimbot? As soon as I saw the dragon roasting the fleet without even a scratch, despite the exact opposite happening last episode, I knew we were still on the Stupid Express. I did really enjoy the Cleganebowl, and I am looking forward to seeing Arya kill Dany (I'm guessing), but beyond that there's not much else to say. This episode was a Michael Bay special, visually spectacular but zero depth

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

r/freefolk has truly lost it

I think his ark worked really well.

He redeemed himself to everyone but himself. He dies becuase he always believed what was the worst of him. Oathbeakimg Kingslayer who deserves Cersei. He was an addict who got clean only to relapse and die. It’s not happy but it was meaningful.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think his ark worked really well.

He redeemed himself to everyone but himself. He dies becuase he always believed what was the worst of him. Oathbeakimg Kingslayer who deserves Cersei. He was an addict who got clean only to relapse and die. It’s not happy but it was meaningful.

What does this mean exactly?

Only three other people know he pushed Brann out the window. He betrayed Dany and Jon when he ran away from Winterfell. He was captured and only released because his brother gave him the key.

Who's on his good side now?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

What does this mean exactly?

Only three other people know he pushed Brann out the window. He betrayed Dany and Jon when he ran away from Winterfell. He was captured and only released because his brother gave him the key.

Who's on his good side now?

That and his line tonight about how he doesn't care about saving innocent lives, despite that being the entire reason he earned the Kingslayer name

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

So did Euron lose his aimbot? As soon as I saw the dragon roasting the fleet without even a scratch, despite the exact opposite happening last episode, I knew we were still on the Stupid Express. I did really enjoy the Cleganebowl, and I am looking forward to seeing Arya kill Dany (I'm guessing), but beyond that there's not much else to say. This episode was a Michael Bay special, visually spectacular but zero depth

Zero depth? It was stomach churning to watch the revenge sacking/burning of the city in gory detail down to the cinders of mother and child. If that episode didn’t punch your gut I don’t know what to say.

[Looch City]

Bug fixes in Episode 5 sure did nerf those scorpions.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Bug fixes in Episode 5 sure did nerf those scorpions.

I think this I can accept. She approached the Iron Fleet high from above, which someone mentioned in this thread as an easy strategy for countering them. She learned. I like that.

[PsYcNeT]

You guys act like every scorpion aim guy and fire guy duo is equal. Like, maybe 2 of those shots were the same duo and some lucky rando, and they got roasted on the first ship this time.

They missed 100% of the shots because they didn't take em and the C or D-team was all that was left.

[AC]

I thought it was a great episode. Really liked the sound design even when it came to Dany's madness when the bells were ringing. They cut to her and the bells sound distorted and echoey.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

What does this mean exactly?

Only three other people know he pushed Brann out the window. He betrayed Dany and Jon when he ran away from Winterfell. He was captured and only released because his brother gave him the key.

Who's on his good side now?

He left Cersei and fought for humanity. Consummated his relationship with Brienne. Effectively at that point his arc could end with him staying North with Brienne. So mid last episode I would say he was redeemed.

Instead he decides to go back because he views himself of only deserving of Cersie and can’t forgive himself for his past the way the realm has.

[AC]

Seems like a nice compromise to get to this point with a little more believability would have been for Rhaegal to have been injured somewhat significantly by the undead in episode 3 (like missing an eye, or a damaged wing), then for Euron to surprise the dragons a bit better and have everyone target the injured dragon bringing it down in a more believable fashion.

Last week's killing of Rhaegal and Dany slaughtering the Iron Fleet both felt too easy on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Oh well, great episode overall tonight I thought.

[Looch City]

Yeah I agree. Ep 4, bad guys are super OP. Then Ep 5, just kidding they're pretty regular haha.

I'm still in shock. I fully expected this outcome but the way it was shot made it so insane. The killing, rapes, burning. Just makes you feel so uneasy.

[OldDutch]

I really liked the episode. I am glad I did. Sounds like some people are having major cognitive dissonance right now as the show isn’t playing out to their expectations. I get it, but man it must be tough seeing how much everyone here has invested in the show.

If I take one thing away it is the horror of war on humanity. I haven’t seen anything before that portrays how civilians are impacted during a bombing strike. You see it on the news, but the horror and awfulness over frankly stupidity really was left with me.

People didn’t have to die but many did. In fear and agony. The children impacted only to start the cycle just like Danny did before them of revenge.

The Hound “I have been chasing revenge all my life and look at me”

Give that man a standing applause. He said so much in so little as he always does.

Now on to who kills Danny and rights this...

[blankall]

Really liked the episode. I can see some of the criticisms, but imo most of these arise from for bad the previous few episodes were. I understand why they needed to kill a dragon last episode. They needed to give Cercei the illusion she could win, so she didn't surrender. It was also shocking how many of those Dothraki and unsulied survived the undead attack. I just don't know why the last few episodes couldn't have been less clunky, to arrive at this point. It's almost like the writers realised how bad some of the writing had been, and decided to ignore many of the most nonsensical parts of the last few episodes, by bringing back Danny's army and nerfing the scorpions.

Back to the episode itself... Great stuff. The gore was excessive, but really drove home the point of the horrors of war. So many of the seamingly invincible characters, reduced to crying children by it all.

Great exits for the Lannisters, the Hound, etc
. Felt really bad for Varys though. I thought he would make it to the end.

Now it's the Starks vs team Dany. Time for Rickon to shine to fix the dragon problem? He won't walk again, but he will "fly". Surely that doesn't just mean in some crows.