[PGT] Avs 3 Flames 2 on the brink

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I would agree with you except that cap hit becomes less and less meaningful if the cap goes up. 1.8 now is probably way more impactful than in three years.



If you are just trading for another bad contract I'd rather keep Neal and try to get him going.

Another epic buyout like Neal might honestly cost Treliving his job. For me, it’s about fit. James Neal doesn’t fit here and perhaps someone else might. Who knows, maybe a local product in Karl Alzner could regain his form and be an upgrade on Fantenberg.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Toonage]

Not sure Montreal moves $3.5M of Alzner for a few years more of $5.75M Neal. They may have reasons to look at it, but that looks like one the Flames pay for to make happen.

Flash brought up Arizona. Worth noting they have cap considerations to make and Bolland's dead money (roughly the same as Neal's money) is coming off their books this summer.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Another epic buyout like Neal might honestly cost Treliving his job. For me, it’s about fit. James Neal doesn’t fit here and perhaps someone else might. Who knows, maybe a local product in Karl Alzner could regain his form and be an upgrade on Fantenberg.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I don’t think Treliving’s job is at risk.

(But I don’t think a Neal buyout is in the cards, either.)

Team doesn’t need an upgrade on Fantenberg, do they? Shot suppression is a 5 man job, not really just that of a 6th d

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Another epic buyout like Neal might honestly cost Treliving his job. For me, it’s about fit. James Neal doesn’t fit here and perhaps someone else might. Who knows, maybe a local product in Karl Alzner could regain his form and be an upgrade on Fantenberg.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If Alzner has been so bad that he can't even make Montreal's lineup, why would we want him here when Andersson, Valimaki, and Kylington are knocking at the door as hard as they are?

[Coach]

Well I've taking some time to digest what I watched last night and here are my thoughts:

The series is not done. Many teams have come back from 3-1, and I have to have optimism that the Flames can turn this around.

The Flames need to hit people. There are countless times I see a Flame curl past a player eligible to be hit and over the course of the series it's given them comfort with the puck. Every player needs to finish their checks, not just Bennett and the Ryan line.

The effort from the top line is pure garbage. Lindholm was better last night, actually finishing checks and trying on the forecheck, but whenever the puck moved, no Monahan to be seen, and if Gaudreau was there, his forecheck is light. He's never hit people, but he was always sneaky good and picking the puck away from opponents on the forecheck and it's just not happening. I'm at a loss for how it can be turned around, they just need to be better straight up. It's on them.

Last night was the first time I recall seeing Neal stop and start to retrieve a puck all season, and it only happened once. Get him out of this series and off this team. He's a bum. I see him on the ice and I look at the clock and there's under 3 minutes in a 2-2 game. WHY THE HELL IS JAMES NEAL ON THE ICE? He's shown no capacity to be of any value at all in that position. This is my only issue with Peters. He's not going to pick it up. He's had his chances and he's playing with two young talented players. Bring me Czarnik or Dube. I don't understand why Neal is immune to the pressbox.

Smith has been a monster. I feel bad for him. He's giving everything he has to give his team a shot, and give himelf probably one final chance at a playoff run, and he's being left out to dry. 40+ shots in back to back games is absurd from the 2nd place team witht he defense they have. Mackinnon's game is no excuse. The amount of second and third chances being allowed is unacceptable. Whenever we get the puck in our zone we give it straight back to them and it's just resulting in chance after chance again. Make a play.

SHOOT THE F***ING PUCK. Tkachuk gave up two sure goals to make an absurdly low percentage play. It almost worked once. The second on should have been a shot. If I watch one more player glide through a prime scoring position with the puck because their path to the net isn't clear I'm going to throw my remote at the TV. THE PATH ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE CLEAR. SHOOT THE PUCK THROUGH TRAFFIC. Sick of seeing great scoring chances just disappear.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The Flames may unfortunately have a culture of mediocrity, but is it really one where losing is acceptable? Has any team been more active in trades than Treliving since he took over?

I don't think it's a culture that accepts losing it all. The players are playing timid in these games. The fans feel it at the Dome. It's as if we're just anticipating the wheels to fall of at any moment.

And they always do.

I don't disagree that Treliving has the drive to make this team a champion, I just feel he is beating against the inertia of an organization that has been wallowing in mediocrity for 30 years. Culture is something that is hard to change, ask the guys up north. The longer this organization goes without any playoff success the greater the pressure is going to be on the next group of guys trying to overcome their playoff ineptitude.

I do agree with you on wilting under pressure and I think that the team has shown its true colours this series. Gaudreau giving up on a play because of an apparent slash, Monahan being invisible again, Frolik doing nothing of value (1 point in his last 12 playoff games).

We as fans anticipate the wheels to fall off at any moment because it's what we have seen for so long. We know its going to happen, we just don't know how.

This performance is so predictable by the Flames it is truly depressing.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah, I don’t think Treliving’s job is at risk.



(But I don’t think a Neal buyout is in the cards, either.)



Team doesn’t need an upgrade on Fantenberg, do they? Shot suppression is a 5 man job, not really just that of a 6th d

It’s not necessarily about finding an “upgrade.” It’s about dumping a contract with the least invasive way possible. There’s an opening for the 6th-7th defenseman especially if one or both of Stone/Brodie are moved. I have zero interest in having 8 years of dead salary on the cap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[united]

Via ThePoint. Depressing.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If Alzner has been so bad that he can't even make Montreal's lineup, why would we want him here when Andersson, Valimaki, and Kylington are knocking at the door as hard as they are?

It’s not even so much about Karl Alzner the player to me. It’s about his contract. Over $1 million less and only 3 years instead of Neal’s 4. If Alzner and his veteran leadership doesn’t work out, we send him to Stockton for the rest of the season and then buy out his last 2 years. His contract would be much easier to buy out than Neal’s contract.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Toonage]

Those images being so large makes it even more depressing

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I just think you need to be careful with this thinking. Oilers fans said this of Hall and Eberle.

The problem wasn’t that they traded Hall and Eberle, it’s that they traded them for magic beans because their management sucked at their jobs.

I have faith that Treliving is multifold more suited than the boneheads up in Greaserville to do a proper evaluation and autopsy of this situation, carry out his due diligence, and make the appropriate changes.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

He's too slow. And it's not just his foot speed, it's his hands too. We are no better off with him than with Brouwer or Jagr, and it's a bigger cap hit for a longer time. He should be sitting. There is nowhere in the lineup he slots in where he someone else is not giving the team more. Why build up depth if we aren't going to use it? Give Neal an ultimatum in the offseason to do serious conditioning work and see if he can recover his game next season.

I thought it was clear - I'm only making that suggestion for this season and if they insist on him being in the lineup.

[coop3422]

I rarely post here being primarily a Flyers fan, but am also a Flames fan and being in Calgary, have watched all this series. Mike Smith is playing out of his mind, I genuinely feel sorry for him.

Monahan has been invisible it seems. Brodie is a train wreck, seems every time the pucks on his stick there's a turnover. I'd love to see the Flames take the series, but they don't deserve it at this point. Even game 1 felt like Colorado was out playing them a bit. Since then the Avs have had their number and hem them in their zone for minutes on end.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Another epic buyout like Neal might honestly cost Treliving his job. For me, it’s about fit. James Neal doesn’t fit here and perhaps someone else might. Who knows, maybe a local product in Karl Alzner could regain his form and be an upgrade on Fantenberg.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Alzner is worse than Neal. And has less of a chance of getting better. And is in a position that is overflowing in Calgary.

[BPH91]

Flames need to learn how to stop the cross crease one-timers if they have any chance in this series.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Coach

Well I've taking some time to digest what I watched last night and here are my thoughts:

The series is not done. Many teams have come back from 3-1, and I have to have optimism that the Flames can turn this around.

The Flames need to hit people. There are countless times I see a Flame curl past a player eligible to be hit and over the course of the series it's given them comfort with the puck. Every player needs to finish their checks, not just Bennett and the Ryan line.

The effort from the top line is pure garbage. Lindholm was better last night, actually finishing checks and trying on the forecheck, but whenever the puck moved, no Monahan to be seen, and if Gaudreau was there, his forecheck is light. He's never hit people, but he was always sneaky good and picking the puck away from opponents on the forecheck and it's just not happening. I'm at a loss for how it can be turned around, they just need to be better straight up. It's on them.

Last night was the first time I recall seeing Neal stop and start to retrieve a puck all season, and it only happened once. Get him out of this series and off this team. He's a bum. He's not going to pick it up. He's had his chances and he's playing with two young talented players. Bring me Czarnik or Dube.

Smith has been a monster. I feel bad for him. He's giving everything he has to give his team a shot, and give himelf probably one final chance at a playoff run, and he's being left out to dry. 40+ shots in back to back games is absurd from the 2nd place team witht he defense they have. Mackinnon's game is no excuse. The amount of second and third chances being allowed is unacceptable. Whenever we get the puck in our zone we give it straight back to them and it's just resulting in chance after chance again. Make a play.

SHOOT THE F***ING PUCK. Tkachuk gave up two sure goals to make an absurdly low percentage play. It almost worked once. The second on should have been a shot. If I watch one more player glide through a prime scoring position with the puck because their path to the net isn't clear I'm going to throw my remote at the TV. THE PATH ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE CLEAR. SHOOT THE PUCK THROUGH TRAFFIC. Sick of seeing great scoring chances just disappear.

Agree with most of this...

I will take a sub par Smith all season long if this is the Smith we get in the playoffs. The last 3 games are complete blow outs if not for him. Saying he has been good is a major understatement. Anyone calling out Peters for not pulling him the other game needs to understand, Peters likely didn't have much of a choice. Smith is playing good and yanking him could easily deflate his play into future games.

Bennett has been solid... not great but I don't think anyone expected him to be a game changer.

As weird as this sounds, I wouldn't be against benching 1 of Sean or Johny for game 5. They are both completely useless when there is the threat of being hit. Johny can't retrieve pucks in corners during the regular season with high success let alone in the playoffs when the odds of being hit go way up.

Sean needs a redbull to show some emotion or if he is hurt, let someone else step in.

The obvious problem is that the Avs top line is outplaying our top line by a long shot but I also see the Avs outworking the flames. We got by all season on a solid system. The problem these top teams seem to have is that while the better team continues doing what gave them success, the underdog has to adapt. All hands on deck watching film on ways to counter the better team as they have nothing to lose while the flames or lightning are smarter making slight adjustments and sticking with what works as they would look crazy changing what made them a top team.

James "saving it for the playoffs" Neal should also be sitting. I am convinced that injecting 2 guys who are prepared to step in front of a shot, have good speed and thrive on contact would greatly change the makeup of this series for the flames.

At the very least, mix up the lines. Lindholm has been good IMO. He has thrown more hits than Johny and Mony combined including a couple of big ones and it isn't his fault that Johny is trying to be a 1 man show and Mony is just in la la land. Split Sean and Johny up on the 2nd and 3rd line, go with a

Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm,
Gaudreau, Ryan, Bennett
Mangiapane, Monahan, Frolik
Dube, Jankowski, Hathaway

Sit Neal, Czarnic

[djsFlames]

Flames can push it to 7 games if they regain their form of being a +60 differential team that allows the least shots in the league (28 per game), and do it now.

That has NOT been the case. Vastly different between regular season and playoffs. They've literally changed their entire game. I saw 10 or so minutes of their 18/19 game last night. They have to dictate. They're still letting the avs dictate the pace and I have no ####ing Idea why when they haven't been that passive all year.

Don't give them space to pick up speed into our zone and outwork and hustle them shift by shift. The standing and watching doesn't work. Being their shadow and using only your stick to stop the play isn't effective.

This team is going to have to turn in a roster of #ssholes overnight to win. And that means between whistles, not after them.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by BPH91

Flames need to learn how to stop the cross crease one-timers if they have any chance in this series.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

All Backlund had to do was be aware of his man and not give him time and space to take that shot

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Alzner is worse than Neal. And has less of a chance of getting better. And is in a position that is overflowing in Calgary.

Like I just said to the last poster about this topic, it’s not about Alzner the player. It’s about his much more palatable contract. $1 million less annually and 3 years instead of 4. Try him out for a few months, if he doesn’t work out, send him to the farm and buyout his remaining 2 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

The problem wasn’t that they traded Hall and Eberle, it’s that they traded them for magic beans because their management sucked at their jobs.

I have faith that Treliving is multifold more suited than the boneheads up in Greaserville to do a proper evaluation and autopsy of this situation, carry out his due diligence, and make the appropriate changes.

Who is going to trade you upgrades on Gaudreau and Monahan without getting older or getting futures in return.