[PGT] Avs 3 Flames 2 on the brink

[Toonage]

On the subject of playoff lessons, you know who is getting a massive lesson right now? David Rittich. Watching Smith's preparation and execution in spite of (and in literal defense of) the team around him? Priceless.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't see why we'd trade Monahan

Just add another guy. Keep Monahan and add another top-six centre with more intensity to his game

trades are being suggested probably due to cap reasons, but also to open up the possibilities in terms of whom one can speculate on...

UFAs signings are high risk propositions. A guy like Neal, even if one wasn't a fan of the length/amount, i don't think many thought he'd drop off this quickly... in 2-3 years sure, i think most expected that, but not him being awful from Game 1 onward

if one looks at the crop of UFAs, many on the list are no longer available, having resigned or traded for and then signing... https://thehockeynews.com/news/artic...agents-of-2019

of these available players, there's a lot of question marks imo... personally, i wanted Calgary to trade for Eberle prior to the TDL day, but with the NYI in the playoffs, that wasn't going to happen.

outside of that, not sure who you could pick up that's an upgrade. I think Donskoi is interesting, but he's pretty inconsistent as iirc SJS has him in the pressbox lately...

so for a 'real' upgrade, Calgary might have to package some players or look at core guys as potential options to trade

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by AC

It's kind of amusing hearing the talk about needing to learn through playoff failure, because I thought that's what getting swept by Anaheim 2 years ago was supposed to be.

We outplayed Anaheim for the vast majority of that series but found ways to lose, now we've been playing poorly and Mike Smith has given us a chance to win and we're still finding ways to lose.

Yup.

That argument also implodes on itself when its Colorado we are up against. They've made playoffs once in the past 4 seasons before this, so why don't they have to learn playoff failure too?

I roll my eyes every time I hear people say this.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I see this series has broken you too.

I understand why that looks crazy. And I will stipulate to the fact he has played badly and that he doesn't deserve to be there. But assuming you are going to play him, IMO Neal has been miscast. Even when he plays with jam (which he has to some degree), he ends up being the guy behind the net passing to Jankowski or Bennett in front, exactly opposite of how he's been successful.

So, again, if you are going to play Neal, who will be work out best with - it's Gaudreau and either Bennett or Lindholm IMO. Gaudreau to pass, the centre to dig and be defensive and also another scoring/passing option. And like I said, is that combination going to produce less than G-M-L? Is it going to defend worse? I don't think so.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

If true, then the Flames should trade Monahan anyway for being so fragile. If he is hurt, then it's the exact same recipe as last year and proof that his body can't handle an 82+ game schedule. Some guys just don't have the physical endurance to play hockey at the highest level for 7-8 months of the year, so get rid of him and bring someone in who can

Monahan gets hurts because he goes to the hard areas of the ice more than anyone on the team. It's that simple.

He's drawn 3 or 4 penalties in this series from crosschecks in the low slot.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by AC

It's kind of amusing hearing the talk about needing to learn through playoff failure, because I thought that's what getting swept by Anaheim 2 years ago was supposed to be.

We outplayed Anaheim for the vast majority of that series but found ways to lose, now we've been playing poorly and Mike Smith has given us a chance to win and we're still finding ways to lose.

Nothing but rationalization for this team not being built for playoff hockey and a desire to avoid facing a difficult reality.

There is nothing to be learned from this experience, apart from the fact that this core wilts under any kind of pressure. We have seen this multiple times now. Treliving said he wanted to see what he has in this group as a way to justify doing nothing at the deadline. Well, we certainly have our answer now.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by AC

It's kind of amusing hearing the talk about needing to learn through playoff failure, because I thought that's what getting swept by Anaheim 2 years ago was supposed to be.

We outplayed Anaheim for the vast majority of that series but found ways to lose, now we've been playing poorly and Mike Smith has given us a chance to win and we're still finding ways to lose.

If learning how to win in the playoffs through playoff failure was a thing then the Flames should be on their way to about 6 consecutive Stanley Cup Final.

I think losing in the playoffs is more indicative of a team that just doesn't have a second gear, doesn't have the pieces with the right mindset/knows what playoff sacrifice is, and a deeply embedded culture of mediocrity where losing is acceptable which I feel is the biggest red flag about this organization.

[TheOnlyBilko]

Don't know if this has been mentioned (probably has?), but interesting tidbit I heard and was actually wondering a couple days ago myself, but if Calgary gets knocked out it will be 1st time in NHL history that the #1 seed in the East/Prince of Wales & #1 seed in the West/Clarence Campbell, both get knocked out 1st round.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I understand why that looks crazy. And I will stipulate to the fact he has played badly and that he doesn't deserve to be there. But assuming you are going to play him, IMO Neal has been miscast. Even when he plays with jam (which he has to some degree), he ends up being the guy behind the net passing to Jankowski or Bennett in front, exactly opposite of how he's been successful.

So, again, if you are going to play Neal, who will be work out best with - it's Gaudreau and either Bennett or Lindholm IMO. Gaudreau to pass, the centre to dig and be defensive and also another scoring/passing option. And like I said, is that combination going to produce less than G-M-L? Is it going to defend worse? I don't think so.

He's too slow. And it's not just his foot speed, it's his hands too. We are no better off with him than with Brouwer or Jagr, and it's a bigger cap hit for a longer time. He should be sitting. There is nowhere in the lineup he slots in where someone else is not giving the team more. Why build up depth if we aren't going to use it? Give Neal an ultimatum in the offseason to do serious conditioning work and see if he can recover his game next season.

[CGY12]

The team lacks speed, which dictates pace and flow. With the way they playoffs are played now, it dictates everything in the game (when everybody is skating and giving 110%). If anything, this series has shown that the Flames lack it.

Gaudreau (Good)
Monahan (Poor)
Lindholm (Average)
Tkachuck (Poor)
Backlund (Good)
Frolik (Average)
Neal (Poor)
Jankowski (Average)
Bennett (Average)
Mangipane (Average)
Ryan (Average)
Hathaway (Poor)

The Flames need to focus on improving this element of the team in the offseason.
No excellent skaters to speak off. When space is at a premium out there in the post season, guys who can get to the spots on the ice fastest, typically garner more chances, more possession and more offensive zone time.

[TheOnlyBilko]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think a new GM is brought in to clean up this mess.

Wow and if Calgary won game 2 in OT and Backlund doesn't get that late penalty last night and we won then Treliving is the greatest thing since sliced bread, right?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by AC

Remember Treliving said the ask for Stone was Valimaki + Rasmus + 1st.

Really hard to say. Stone is legit, but also would have taken a salary of $11.5M with Calgary to get the equivalent in post-tax takehome compared to $9.5M with Vegas.

This just smells like horse#### to me. It just doesn't make any sense. The package from the flames is more than twice as valuable as the package they accepted from the knights? Why would the price be THAT much higher for Calgary? If that WAS the price, then how come the Flames were in on Stone for so long? Maloney basically said they thought they were getting stone when they went to sleep the night before the deadline and then the deal fell apart.

Also the tax claim is BS as well as far as I know. This is Burke carrying water for the organization. I've heard it from too many accountants and business managers that Canada and especially Alberta is as competitive as any other jurisdiction for professional hockey players. Conversely, I've never had someone explain to me why they would pay more taxes in Canada other than pointing at the marginal tax rate which doesn't necessarily apply to the players in the first place. It's all over the place with regards to deferred income in canada, residency, the time of year payments are received etc etc.

Alberta is still just as attractive as any jurisdiction in the NHL to play hockey.

It only took a couple of hours for Stone's contract to come together because he and his management team had been looking towards that moment all year. All the scenarios were prepped and basically everyone involved between Ottawa, Vegas and Calgary knew what he'd be looking for and what his market rate would be.

There just really isn't that kind of price premium to play in Canada/Alberta or you'd see the Canadian teams bottoming out like they did pre-lockout because they couldn't compete.

IMO, they knew they needed to add, and because they didn't they now have to save face about it. Lo' and behold we're probably seeing why right now.

It just doesn't make any sense that Treliving would be in on Stone for Rasmus Valimaki +1st until the 11th hour and then just walk away because Vegas offered a significantly less valuable package.

The only way Ottawa was asking for Valimaki + Rasmus + 1st is if CALGARY was sending back bad money in order to SIGN Stone.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

If we had made the same deadline deals as Vegas we would have won the series by now.

As good as Stone is, are the Flames 1 player away from making this a series?

The entire team except Smith looks timid and tired. What if we made this trade and still lost?

[TheOnlyBilko]

How can SO Many people, who are pretty big fans if they are on here posting, keep spelling it James NEIL???

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Nothing but rationalization for this team not being built for playoff hockey and a desire to avoid facing a difficult reality.

There is nothing to be learned from this experience, apart from the fact that this core wilts under any kind of pressure. We have seen this multiple times now. Treliving said he wanted to see what he has in this group as a way to justify doing nothing at the deadline. Well, we certainly have our answer now.

I just think you need to be careful with this thinking. Oilers fans said this of Hall and Eberle.

[Flash Walken]

In a series where basically a single line, maybe even a single player, is roasting the entire roster, the answer to whether a point per game Selke nominee would impact the series is a scream-it-from-the-top-of-a-mountain YES

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

If learning how to win in the playoffs through playoff failure was a thing then the Flames should be on their way to about 6 consecutive Stanley Cup Final.

I think losing in the playoffs is more indicative of a team that just doesn't have a second gear, doesn't have the pieces with the right mindset/knows what playoff sacrifice is, and a deeply embedded culture of mediocrity where losing is acceptable which I feel is the biggest red flag about this organization.

The Flames may unfortunately have a culture of mediocrity, but is it really one where losing is acceptable? Has any team been more active in trades than Treliving since he took over?

I don't think it's a culture that accepts losing it all. The players are playing timid in these games. The fans feel it at the Dome. It's as if we're just anticipating the wheels to fall of at any moment.

And they always do.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

How can SO Many people, who are pretty big fans if they are on here posting, keep spelling it James NEIL???

Hes been so invisible the whole season nobody was able to learn his name.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Why would you trade Monahan when he's been playing on a line where his team mate is a defensive liability and contributes nothing unless the puck is on his stick.

I sometimes wonder if people here are watching the same games I'm watching. In this series, Gaudreau has backchecked hard and forced turnovers multiple times each game. I think I've seen Monahan backcheck to useful effect once in the series.

Gaudreau plays way harder without the puck than Monahan. And it isn't even close.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

Yup.



That argument also implodes on itself when its Colorado we are up against. They've made playoffs once in the past 4 seasons before this, so why don't they have to learn playoff failure too?



I roll my eyes every time I hear people say this.

Flames didnt make the playoffs for 7 years and beat the Canucks A team at the time was looked at an a contender. It happens

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