[PGT] Avs 3 Flames 2 on the brink

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This is a huge thing, if you're going to trade Monahan and Gaudreau then we'd better to prepared to look at a rebuild because we're going to be offered draft picks and prospects.


if we're going to trade Monahan and Gaudreau we'd damn sure better be able to get back 2/3 of a first line on good contracts.


So the question is always going to be, do you trade them? Or does Brad look for top 6 help in the offseason and who would he trade to get that. We might not like that price.

Yeah, if we don't want to trade Valimaki we aren't going to get a bonafide top 6 guy. Brodie will probably get a middle-6 forward back.



It is too bad we were so focused on that Stone that we missed out on Duchene.

[Robbob]

Decided just to sleep on it. This morning I still am shaking my head on how cruel a mistress Hockey gods are. That Hathaway chance gave me flashbacks of Reichel and Huselius.

Still in this. Just need to take it one game at a time.

[SofaProfessor]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Bennett was the key to this rebuild. He may still be if he can work on his shot.

Why not try Bennett on the top line? I've always thought he had an unfairly short leash and has regularly been on lines with boat anchors. Like how can you get anything going with Neal and Janko this series?

Even if Bennett isn't scoring goals, he can drive that forecheck and maybe open up some space for Johnny. Lindholm is doing his best and I've really liked him this series but Bennett just has that extra grit that seems to be missing.

[badradio]

A lot of people are going to look pretty bad when we find out Monahan is playing injured again. I’m only guessing, but he hasn’t been able to put much on his shot for quite awhile. I’m guessing it’s the same as last year where he needs surgery and would be out for the season if he had it. I just think there is history of undisclosed injuries and people should hold off on the harsh judgement.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Not sure I get the hate for Monahan. He's up and down the ice all the time. As soon as he doesn't score, some of you write him off. He's trying to cover both ends of the ice as a centre is supposed to do. Too bad that Gaudreau (and some of you) just feel that all Johnny has to do is wait for someone to help him out. This team will not get any better till we no longer rely on him.

But, I am most disappointed in Peters. His failure to change things up, especially the first line, definitely screwed the effort. His use of Jankowski, Neil and his line selections were choices that did nothing to help. That and the failure to utilize Bennett better was a sign of his short comings. As one of my Flames buddies says, "go jets go".

Yeah, he's up and down the easy areas of the ice. That's about it. I wouldn't care at all if he had 0 points and was playing his behind off, stripping pucks and battling to create space. To not even see your #1 centre body guys or get back in the zone as fast as he can when the chance presents itself is beyond inexcusable.

You could create a highlight reel of the guy peeling from checks and avoiding contact this series and we'd likely be watching all day. Not enough when you see the likes of Seguin, O'Reilley, Couture, Mackinnon doing everything they can, every shift despite scoring or not.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Gaudreau is the best value trade asset we have. Why would you trade Monahan when he's been playing on a line where his team mate is a defensive liability and contributes nothing unless the puck is on his stick. It's time for all the Gaudreau lovers to wake up and recognize his shortcomings. At the least, move him to a line that can physically protect him. His play doesn't rely on his team mates anyway so use him on a tough line where he can wander all over the ice. Make him a Centre.

As an outside fan, I'd make the case that Monahan is a passenger on that line and that's a huge problem when the center is a passenger. He doesn't bring that defensive element of a guy like Bergeron or Kopitar (when he was good). He's not going to be the guy who drives the play and creates the opportunities like like Wheeler or Barkov. Monahan is a great shot, but not a guy who can create his own opportunities. He needs that guy who can make magic while he gets open. That's.... not good. If his guy who makes the opportunities for him (Gaudreau) goes cold, he goes cold too. So now you have a top line center who isn't scoring, isn't creating and is suspect defensively. It's bad.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by badradio

A lot of people are going to look pretty bad when we find out Monahan is playing injured again. I’m only guessing, but he hasn’t been able to put much on his shot for quite awhile. I’m guessing it’s the same as last year where he needs surgery and would be out for the season if he had it. I just think there is history of undisclosed injuries and people should hold off on the harsh judgement.

Maybe, but why was he playing down the stretch, and if he is so "brittle" what difference does it make, other than having a better excuse?

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by badradio

A lot of people are going to look pretty bad when we find out Monahan is playing injured again. I’m only guessing, but he hasn’t been able to put much on his shot for quite awhile. I’m guessing it’s the same as last year where he needs surgery and would be out for the season if he had it. I just think there is history of undisclosed injuries and people should hold off on the harsh judgement.

Then the Flames should trade his ass before it becomes an even bigger problem. It's the playoffs, a lot of players are playing with injuries.

[jg13]

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by jg13

Ban immediately

[HighLifeMan]

Unbelievably frustrating. Yes, the officiating has been somewhat suspect in the late game, but this team has no business being in the series. We have been completely outplayed and out hustled the entire time. On a positive note, I thought Valimaki looked absolutely fantastic. He is going to be a very good player for a very long time. Hanifin looked like a complete dumpster fire last night.



Jankowski and Neal have to sit. They are complete liabilities at this point. Czarnik and Dube can come in to inject some god damn passion and speed.



Gaudreau - Lindholm - Bennett

Tkachuk - Backlund - Czarnik

Dube - Monahan - Frolik

Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Toonage

James Neal can sit. Thats about the biggest thing he could do now. Czarnik or Dube. Get some speed in there and empty the tank.

i don't know if the organization will allow Neal to sit to be frank.

He played just 8:35 at even strength in game 1, and personally I think the message was sent from on high that he needed to play more as even though the results from the Flames have gotten progressively worse with each game, he's seen his minutes increase from that point.

Last night he played about 11:15 at even strength through three periods and it turned out to be one of the more competitive games in the series.

Of course, he was out there staring at the game winner, was a -2 on the night and is a -3 for the series with 0 points.

I don't know how Treliving goes to Murray and says:

"I know i just had you pay brouwer not to play here anymore, and I know that was the third time I've asked you to buy out a bad contract I've signed, but I'm going to need you to pay James Neal FIFTEEN MILLION DOLLARS to go away."

I think a new GM is brought in to clean up this mess.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

i don't know if the organization will allow Neal to sit to be frank.



He played just 8:35 at even strength in game 1, and personally I think the message was sent from on high that he needed to play more as even though the results from the Flames have gotten progressively worse with each game, he's seen his minutes increase from that point.



Last night he played about 11:15 at even strength through three periods and it turned out to be one of the more competitive games in the series.



Of course, he was out there staring at the game winner, was a -2 on the night and is a -3 for the series with 0 points.



I don't know how Treliving goes to Murray and says:



"I know i just had you pay brouwer not to play here anymore, and I know that was the third time I've asked you to buy out a bad contract I've signed, but I'm going to need you to pay James Neal FIFTEEN MILLION DOLLARS to go away."



I think a new GM is brought in to clean up this mess.

What mess? Their cap structure is fantastic. You think a new GM is brought in to clean up one bad contract?

Odd take

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think a new GM is brought in to clean up this mess.

Treliving has at least one more year

[Flash Walken]

Here's the thing about comparing Monahan to all these elite centres:

All those elite centres have the offense run through them. There aren't many teams in the league where the offense runs through the winger.

What is so pronounced about how bad the Flames have been is how bad Gaudreau has been. There really is only so much a centre playing with Gaudreau can do because that Centre never has the puck and is never in charge of where it goes.

The entire team offense is geared through Gaudreau. If he is having an off night the entire team will look bad. Look at what just happened to Tampa. Kucherov goes quiet after getting frustrated and that entire team goes cold. The same thing happens in Chicago with Pat Kane. All of a sudden Kane starts feeling it and the entire team goes on a streak.

Monahan lacks qualities you want in your #1 centre to be sure, and he has physical limitations on what he can do on the ice in terms of his speed. However, when Gaudreau is routinely giving away pucks in transition and within 10 feet of the blueline, that is going to make a guy lacking in speed look MUCH MUCH worse than he is.

IMO the problem right now is that Gaudreau's negative energy is a black cloud over the whole team and his linemates could be Francis and Iginla and he'd be making them look bad with his ####ty passes and horrific turnovers, because those other guys are never allowed to handle the puck.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by heep223

What mess? Their cap structure is fantastic. You think a new GM is brought in to clean up one bad contract?

Odd take

Neal's contract, Stone's contract and the Brouwer buyout add up to almost $11 million in dead money. One guy doesn't play here, one is the 9th defenseman and one is the 12th best forward. If that.

I'm not advocating firing Treliving, but all of those deals go into next year and are going to restrict the ability to upgrade the roster.

[CN10]

Positives:
1. Valimaki looks like he's going to be a really steady player for the Flames moving forward. I'm glad we didn't move him for a rental of Mark Stone or Mark Stone + cap hell.
2. Mike Smith may have just earned himself another year in the NHL with this playoff performance. Not sure if he will be back with the Flames next year but I think if he retires it will be his choice rather than the choice being made for him like it looked like it would be earlier this season.
3. Who would have thought that the Flames PP would have goals in each game this series given how it ended the year on one of the worst runs in the league.
4. The video / meeting session seemed to work to reduce the Avs speed through the zones at points in the game. I think as the game wore on and fatigue set it the Flames reverted to the bad habits that are getting them killed this series (giving up the blue lines easily and have a lack of back pressure from the forwards).

Negatives:
1. Top line is stuck in their post ASG break funk. Where is the December/January version of these guys? If that kind of play returns, I absolutely think we can beat the Avs in three straight. They need to find the same switch the Avs top guys flipped after game 1.
2. Jankowski, and Neal should not be on the same line as the Avs are exposing their lack of foot speed. Peters needs to adjust something with this forward group in order to start out chancing the Avalanche. I would look at putting someone with decent speed on each line and would not be opposed to see what we have in Dube and hope he has as good of a debut as Valimaki:
Gaudreau - Backlund - Tkachuk
Bennett - Monahan - Lindholm
Frolik - Dube - Neal
Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway
or
Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Ryan - Neal
Mangiapane - Jankowski - Hathaway
3. Complete lack of clutch by this team holding leads or capitalizing in OT. We could be undeservedly up 3-1 in the series if not for late penalties and flubbed overtime scoring chances.

Heartbreaking loss, but overall the Avs have been the better team for the three games they've won. Would have been nice to have a bit better luck in either game 2 or 4 and have held on for the win or have scored on the OT chance (Frolik or Backlund lift their shot attempt in either of these games a bit higher and the series is tied) but it seems that the Flames don't get these types of breaks. They will have to work harder and make their own puck luck if they want to go on a three game winning streak of their own. Hoping for an early Flames goal on Friday and the Dome crowd to urge them on to a dismantling of the Avalanche. Just have to find the answers like the Avs did after game 1 and go on a three game streak of our own. It starts with one game, GFG!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Here's the thing about comparing Monahan to all these elite centres:

All those elite centres have the offense run through them. There aren't many teams in the league where the offense runs through the winger.

What is so pronounced about how bad the Flames have been is how bad Gaudreau has been. There really is only so much a centre playing with Gaudreau can do because that Centre never has the puck and is never in charge of where it goes.

The entire team offense is geared through Gaudreau. If he is having an off night the entire team will look bad. Look at what just happened to Tampa. Kucherov goes quiet after getting frustrated and that entire team goes cold. The same thing happens in Chicago with Pat Kane. All of a sudden Kane starts feeling it and the entire team goes on a streak.

Monahan lacks qualities you want in your #1 centre to be sure, and he has physical limitations on what he can do on the ice in terms of his speed. However, when Gaudreau is routinely giving away pucks in transition and within 10 feet of the blueline, that is going to make a guy lacking in speed look MUCH MUCH worse than he is.

IMO the problem right now is that Gaudreau's negative energy is a black cloud over the whole team and his linemates could be Francis and Iginla and he'd be making them look bad with his ####ty passes and horrific turnovers, because those other guys are never allowed to handle the puck.

This is correct IMO. You could have an elite centre through whom the offense runs and make Gaudreau a complementary player. A top line of elite centre with Tkachuk and Lindholm for example and a second line of Gaudreau and Monahan. Split the PP units.

But there are no such players in the system. Flames don't have the assets to acquire or draft such a player (and they rarely become available anyway).

But yeah it can't be understated that Gaudreau's lack of production and turnovers are single handedly tilting the series. No goals and 3 assists in last 8 playoff games.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by SofaProfessor

Why not try Bennett on the top line? I've always thought he had an unfairly short leash and has regularly been on lines with boat anchors. Like how can you get anything going with Neal and Janko this series?

Even if Bennett isn't scoring goals, he can drive that forecheck and maybe open up some space for Johnny. Lindholm is doing his best and I've really liked him this series but Bennett just has that extra grit that seems to be missing.

I would do it. Bennett first line centre to create space for Johnny. All he has to do is stand infront of the net and pot in passes. We need his grit more than we need Monahan there. Move Monahan with Chucky to create a second scoring threat and tell him to remember how he played in junior when he was the only star on the team and had to create for himself. 3M isn't really able to contain MacKinnon any way the best defence is to out possess them at this point and keep the puck in their end.

[Scroopy Noopers]

So I went back and found a clip of Neal last night that illustrates his skating performance this season.

Play starts with 8:05 remaining in the 3rd period. Neal to his credit hustles back and “catches” Nieto, although he reaches out and grabs him twice with his free arm which was an obvious hold and a stupid thing to try when the refs are behaving as they are.

Neal, playing RW, then takes one of the most over the top float around glides I’ve ever seen. Even for a guy just finishing a backcheck, it was absurd. He floats down into the far corner and swoops back up ice along the left wall.

He’s playing RW, we are up 1 goal, don’t have possession of the puck in our own end, and he’s blowing the zone on the off wing. Sit your ass down for a few games.