[PGT] Avs 3 Flames 2 on the brink

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Monahan is a big reason for Johnny's struggles lately and I don't think that is being considered enough. A small, passive yet extremely gifted winger cannot take over a playoff series on his own. Even when Iginla was in his heyday, he still had a guy like Conroy or Langkow at centre to just work their butts off and play with passion down the middle alongside him.

I was on the fence with him the last year or so and was cautiously optimistic he had figured it out this season after a pretty strong 50 or so games under Peters. The last 2 months have been a joke in terms of his compete level will to win. The guy plays like a cream puff and does nothing for the team unless he's getting fed glorious chances in the low slot.

This team won't be going anywhere in the post season with that kind of player in the #1C position. Just look around the Conference and what some of these better teams currently role out as their #1C:

Couture, Karlsson, Getzlaf, Kopitar, Johansson, Schiefle, Seguin, O'Reilley

There isn't a single guy on that list that you could argue a case for Monahan being even close to in terms of 200' game, puck play and just hating to lose hockey games. For me, he's a number 2 guy on an good team that is recognized as much more as a Flame due to his role on this team.

I agree completely. I'm not putting the blame on Gaudreau that much, he just doesn't have the frame or game that's suited for playoffs BUT he can make it work if someone else drives the play.



Monahan does have the frame and should have the game for playoffs though. I guess he's injured again but that's not an excuse anymore if it happens every year, just the reality.

[keeper34]

Originally Posted by J pold

Why is James Neal on the ice.

Because he has playoff experience but his experience didn't matter. Time to buy out Neal.

[Johnny Makarov]

Holy mother! This thread is the all time epic ATL.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Monahan is a big reason for Johnny's struggles lately and I don't think that is being considered enough. A small, passive yet extremely gifted winger cannot take over a playoff series on his own. Even when Iginla was in his heyday, he still had a guy like Conroy or Langkow at centre to just work their butts off and play with passion down the middle alongside him.

I don’t actually disagree with you on the Monahan impact on Johnny’s game. You also may be right on the cant take over a series on his own comment, but if that’s true, the Flames to acknowledge tgey can’t build this team up front around Johnny. Which means they might need to move away from him when his statistics demand a top 5 in the league pay day because you can’t pay someone that money if they can’t do what we are seeing MaCkinnon doing this series.

[VladtheImpaler]

F me. I thought Smith was dead and that goaltending would be the undoing of our season. If you had told me that Smith had played 4 games and had a .931 SVPCT, I would be concerned about the 8 day lay off while we wait for the Knights series to start.
I think it comes down to a few things... I don't think you can win with Tim Kerr/Jay Bouwmeester (but slower) as your #1C. JG is weak and tiny, but he is talented - he just needs a... McKinnon as his C. I think what he actually needs is Couturier - no idea if we can get him for a Monahan+ package...

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I agree completely. I'm not putting the blame on Gaudreau that much, he just doesn't have the frame or game that's suited for playoffs BUT he can make it work if someone else drives the play.



Monahan does have the frame and should have the game for playoffs though. I guess he's injured again but that's not an excuse anymore if it happens every year, just the reality.

There was just an article in the athletic about his production tailing off and reading into whether it could be an injury. Based on all the shot and possession metrics, his game is pretty much at the same level it was months ago when he was actually rolling so there's little reason to think that is an excuse and more likely statistical regression.

https://theathletic.com/928208/2019/...monahans-play/

He certainly doesn't bring the kind of play to give me reason to think he's hurt himself working his butt off in a board battle or physically dominating defenders down low.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Royle9

THE GOOD NEWS is the Flames just released game 7 tickets!!
Get em while you can..

Just bought a couple. Keep the faith, baby.












Of course, they are fully refundable so it's not a huge risk. And if they get that far....

[868904]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

There was just an article in the athletic about his production tailing off and reading into whether it could be an injury. Based on all the shot and possession metrics, his game is pretty much at the same level it was months ago when he was actually rolling so there's little reason to think that is an excuse and more likely statistical regression.

https://theathletic.com/928208/2019/...monahans-play/

He certainly doesn't bring the kind of play to give me reason to think he's hurt himself working his butt off in a board battle or physically dominating defenders down low.

You don't really need advanced stats to see what the problem is. He's playing scared and he's burning all his energy on complaining and worrying about the officials. If he would just keep his mouth shut and refocus his energy on attacking the net, he'd be much better.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by 868904

You don't really need advanced stats to see what the problem is. He's playing scared and he's burning all his energy on complaining and worrying about the officials. If he would just keep his mouth shut and refocus his energy on attacking the net, he'd be much better.

Article is about Monahan

[Teroy]

Not sure I get the hate for Monahan. He's up and down the ice all the time. As soon as he doesn't score, some of you write him off. He's trying to cover both ends of the ice as a centre is supposed to do. Too bad that Gaudreau (and some of you) just feel that all Johnny has to do is wait for someone to help him out. This team will not get any better till we no longer rely on him.

But, I am most disappointed in Peters. His failure to change things up, especially the first line, definitely screwed the effort. His use of Jankowski, Neil and his line selections were choices that did nothing to help. That and the failure to utilize Bennett better was a sign of his short comings. As one of my Flames buddies says, "go jets go".

[Flash Walken]

The only game the flames have won this series is the game where Neal played less than 12 minutes.

[Bonded]

When Sam Bennett is leading the Flames in points, you know the team is in trouble.



Will be interesting too see if they just get steam rolled tomorrow.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by greyshep

This series has been so demoralizing. Johnny and Monahan have no playoff gear at all. What can Treliving do to fix this? Who would give good value for either of those guys considering the playoff resume they have put together?

One bad playoffs does not tank their value at all. They’d be huge trade chips if Treliving decides he can’t win with them.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

One bad playoffs does not tank their value at all. They’d be huge trade chips if Treliving decides he can’t win with them.

Especially with those contracts.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

Amazed by the amount of people completely turning on Gaudreau.

I get the frustration but I don’t get turning on him the way people are.

Not saying it’s wrong, just amazed by the complete 180 of opinion of our top forward by so many.

Not sure why anybody would be amazed. Outside of game 1 he’s been a total no show. He’s been playing small and scared and his game went backwards when it mattered most.

It’s perfectly logical to be wondering if Gaudreau/Monahan have what it takes to win with. Because you’d have to be loyal to a fault not to be questioning it.

[Bonded]

Problem with trading Monahan and Gaudreau is that you are going to get lesser pieces for them. We would be rebuilding the rebuild.

[SofaProfessor]

Neal is straight up useless. I'm hesitant to say he was responsible for 2 goals last night because it's hard to make a judgement call like that when he's not even in the picture. He's at centre ice when the play starts to develop in the Flames zone and is just coasting to the top of the slot aimlessly in time to watch the goal go in.

If he's in the lineup tomorrow I'm not sure how anyone in the organization can say they laid it all on the line for an elimination game. Obviously I'd love to be pleasantly surprised by Neal but I'm not sure how that would even happen. The best he has shown us all year is some decent games where he seemed to have a bit of a jump in his step but it's not like he was playing exceptionally or putting up points.

[Psytic]

Anybody remember Monahan's first NHL season. He was dynamic, he lead the rush, he created for himself. I thought he was going to be right there with MacKinnon his whole career. Then Johnny came in to the league and I swear Monahan got worse, his point totals went up but individually he got lazier and lost that creativity he had the first season. Suddenly the guy didnt have to do anything himself, he just needed to get open and wait to deposit a sweet pass. I hate to say it but having those two glued to the hip has been detrimental to Monahans development imo. He was trending to be a much more rounded player when he was forced to think on his own.



Its a shame Bennett didnt turn out, having his grit with Johnny would have been perfect and could have helped to create space in the playoffs. Monahan would have have been free to lead his own line and develop his dynamic play with Tkachuck instead of standing around waiting for tap ins.


Bennett was the key to this rebuild. He may still be if he can work on his shot.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Problem with trading Monahan and Gaudreau is that you are going to get lesser pieces for them. We would be rebuilding the rebuild.

This is a huge thing, if you're going to trade Monahan and Gaudreau then we'd better to prepared to look at a rebuild because we're going to be offered draft picks and prospects.


if we're going to trade Monahan and Gaudreau we'd damn sure better be able to get back 2/3 of a first line on good contracts.


So the question is always going to be, do you trade them? Or does Brad look for top 6 help in the offseason and who would he trade to get that. We might not like that price.

[Teroy]

Gaudreau is the best value trade asset we have. Why would you trade Monahan when he's been playing on a line where his team mate is a defensive liability and contributes nothing unless the puck is on his stick. It's time for all the Gaudreau lovers to wake up and recognize his shortcomings. At the least, move him to a line that can physically protect him. His play doesn't rely on his team mates anyway so use him on a tough line where he can wander all over the ice. Make him a Centre.