Monahan: "Losing sucks and I'm frustrated with my play"

[AC]

Love and CanadaMatt banned?

[TheIronMaiden]

Monahan is a stud, my favourite Flame by a red mile.

[Beninho]

For Love

Poor Love, has to cheer for the best team in the West. If only we had Aho tho, then Love would be excited the watch games

Edit: whoa didn’t see the direction this thread took


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[Draug]

Originally Posted by Love

If we had Barkov / Drai and still got Chucky, we'd be Tampa tier. Honestly better

Can you just go away? You dont even think things through. You just B!+@# and B!+@# and B!+@# ....

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Draug

Can you just go away?

Well, there's this.

[Bonded]

Hmmm, didn't see the thread turning into this

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Guess it's time to update this info.

Monahan was drafted in 2013.
Monahan has 169 career NHL goals.

Players drafted in 2013 with more goals - 0
Players drafted in 2012 with more goals - 0
Players drafted in 2011 with more goals - 2 - Landeskog (176) & Kucherov (185)
Players drafted in 2010 with more goals - 4 - Seguin (260), Skinner (241), Tarasenko (207) & Hall (202).
Heck, let's go back to drafted in 2009 - 4 - Tavares (317), Duchene (231), E. Kane (214) & O'Reilly (182).
Sure, let's add on drafted in 2008 - 3 - Stamkos (389), Eberle (205) & Atkinson (184).
(There are only 8 who were drafted in 2007 who have more...)

So, of the last 2,331 players drafted in the NHL, (2008 to and including 2018), 13 of them have more goals than Sean Monahan. 13. Thir-####ing-teen

Of those 2,331 players 1,059 of them were drafted before Sean Monahan.

Since the start of the 2013-2014 season, being when he was drafted into the NHL, he has the 15th most goals.
The 7th most for a centre.

That's a myopic analysis though. No one will go through the annals of history and talks about how many goals Peter Forsberg or Henrik Sedin or Joe Thornton or Pavel Datsyuk or Sergei Fedorov or Brian Trottier or Nik Backstrom scored.

While goalscoring is important, it is not really a framework around which to evaluate players with other responsibilities. We saw this last year too with the insufferable "Dougie Hamilton has the most goals of any defenseman!!!".

Can you honestly say that you would reject "#1" center swap offers by the Flyers, Panthers, Avs because of the information you posted?

Monahan's goal scoring is an important part of this team and we certainly need it back. But defaulting to it as if that outweighs the many other aspects of the position - the aspects even a bottom six guy like Derek Ryan has excelled at in that top line role - comes across as cherrypicking. Especially when using career totals as if a team like Florida cares that Barkov had a slow start to his career with heavy responsibilities thrust upon him from the start.

I think we're very fortunate that Mikael Backlund is as good as he is at many of the duties expected of a #1 center, and together with Monahan's offense we have the equivalent of one, but center is still by far the weakest area on the team. There's no shame in admitting that.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

Dude, you're a solid member here. Seems to me those people pissing and moaning in that thread are all permabans here, who now whine at each other about how hard done by they are. Farts in the wind is what they amount to.

I agree with this. We have had our disagreements and run ins but I still respect your opinions and comments. Hell, I have run ins with a lot of posters on here because we have differing opinions but that is going to happen with passionate hockey fans. There is nothing wrong with having a differing opinion but you have to know that if you go against the popular concensus you are going to get blow back. However, what Love was doing was clearly trolling and there was no need for the other poster to link to some Reddit thread with a bunch of bitter banned posters to stir the pot. There are only a couple of current posters I think belong to the board who are here because they feed off stirring the pot, I am not naming them, they are not hard to figure out who they are. I think we tend to forget in our passion for the Flames we are all on the same side here.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I agree with this. We have had our disagreements and run ins but I still respect your opinions and comments. Hell, I have run ins with a lot of posters on here because we have differing opinions but that is going to happen with passionate hockey fans. There is nothing wrong with having a differing opinion but you have to know that if you go against the popular concensus you are going to get blow back. However, what Love was doing was clearly trolling and there was no need for the other poster to link to some Reddit thread with a bunch of bitter banned posters to stir the pot. There are only a couple of current posters I think belong to the board who are here because they feed off stirring the pot, I am not making them, they are not hard to figure out who they are. I think we tend to forget in our passion for the Flames we are all on the same side here.

I don't know. Monahan is definitely in the bottom half of the league for #1 centres, I agree with that. I also agree that when he isn't scoring he is basically a no-impact guy.

But I'd say Backlund is one of the better #2 centers in the league. Especially in a shutdown role.

Janko is not a very good #3 imo. I know a lot of people on the forum are higher on this guy than I am but he doesn't bring much IMO. Good penalty killer (although not lately).

Ryan is one of the top #4 centres in the league and plays a huge role on the team. I think he is maybe top 5 in the league?

Overall, there are a lot of teams with better centre depth than us. No doubt. But weakest part of the team? I'd still say goaltending.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Jore

If he's not injured, I don't see why considering trading him for an equivalent centre who can drive his own line and contribute in other ways when the offense is going cold is so blasphemous. I still think ideally we keep him and he gets through this and back to his earlier level of play.

I think the issue is that you will not get a better centre than Monahan. Why would a team trade a center that was better than him and an equivalent age.



You move on from Monahan and it will be for a package of lesser parts.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I think the issue is that you will not get a better centre than Monahan. Why would a team trade a center that was better than him and an equivalent age.



You move on from Monahan and it will be for a package of lesser parts.

And then the team would spend the next decade right back at where they were ten years ago, pining for a top-line centre. The fact of the matter is that you don't just trade for these players. You have to draft them.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

And then the team would spend the next decade right back at where they were ten years ago, pining for a top-line centre. The fact of the matter is that you don't just trade for these players. You have to draft them.

I also think Mony would be key to getting Johnny to re-sign in Calgary. Kind of like Kane/Towes duo.

You trade Mony away and Johnny will probably go to UFA.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I think the issue is that you will not get a better centre than Monahan. Why would a team trade a center that was better than him and an equivalent age.



You move on from Monahan and it will be for a package of lesser parts.

It's hard to say, who knows who will suddenly be on the market and sold for nothing, like O'Reilly, and who knows which player might find a fit and blossom offensively, like Lindholm. A lot depends on pro scouting and being opportunistic.

I also wouldn't hate trading Monahan for a slightly older legit 1C and other assets, like the Backstrom trade someone brought up. Again, this is all assuming that Monahan can't pull out of whatever is happening to him for the rest of the season and playoffs.

[Kybb79]

Things would be better if we can sign another Centre like Hayes or a top 6 rw and use Lindholm a centre next season. More options the better.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

And then the team would spend the next decade right back at where they were ten years ago, pining for a top-line centre. The fact of the matter is that you don't just trade for these players. You have to draft them.

That’s a little too absolute as top line centers have been traded. Joe Thornton being a prime example. It is very hard to do and the price is high obviously.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That’s a little too absolute as top line centers have been traded. Joe Thornton being a prime example. It is very hard to do and the price is high obviously.

Something that has happened once in the past fourteen years is not "too absolute" to dismiss.

If anything, the equivalent to Joe Thornton in any trade involving Monahan would not be whatever is returned to the Flames, it would be Sean Monahan himself. I want no part of any situation that sees the likelihood of him being swapped for players comparable to Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau and Brad Stuart.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Jore

It's hard to say, who knows who will suddenly be on the market and sold for nothing, like O'Reilly, and who knows which player might find a fit and blossom offensively, like Lindholm. A lot depends on pro scouting and being opportunistic.

I also wouldn't hate trading Monahan for a slightly older legit 1C and other assets, like the Backstrom trade someone brought up. Again, this is all assuming that Monahan can't pull out of whatever is happening to him for the rest of the season and playoffs.

Backstrom isn't slightly older though. He is 7 years older.

Monahan is a #1 centre that you want to upgrade. His warts are on the defensive side.

You would either be trading for a younger guy who may become better than Monahan, trading him for a much older guy, trading him for another #1 centre
who has their own issues, or selling him for a futures package.

Unless Treliving could pull off some wizardry and trade Monahan for an upgrade straight across I don't see how we can win by trading him. Who on the list below would realistically be available and an upgrade?

Spoiler!

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Things would be better if we can sign another Centre like Hayes or a top 6 rw and use Lindholm a centre next season. More options the better.

I really don't know why they don't swap Lindholm and Monahan. Peter's doesn't like Lindholm at centre for some reason.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Something that has happened once in the past fourteen years is not "too absolute" to dismiss.

If anything, the equivalent to Joe Thornton in any trade involving Monahan would not be whatever is returned to the Flames, it would be Sean Monahan himself. I want no part of any situation that sees the likelihood of him being swapped for players comparable to Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau and Brad Stuart.

Sean Monahan is not Joe Thornton. I see very little comparable between the two. If one believes a franchise center is what the team is missing, you examine what Gaudreau and a young defenseman would return.

[Dajazz]

Great player, top 20 centre in the league. Plays a boring style, not flashy, quietly in good position defensively and offensively. Underrated defensively because he’s good at getting in lanes and playing “zone”, so often a rush start because he picks of a pass or a rebound. I wouldn’t be surprised if he leads the team in takeaways. Edit: he does, tied with Giordano from what I can see.

Would love to see him get more physical and develop his play away from Gaudreau. I think he can turn on beast mode in the play offs.

On of the best contracts in the league, and a flame to boot.