Alberta Election Thread - Election Day April 16 2019

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

This move alone tells me it's not just about pipelines and jobs, it's about ideological implementation. There was no good reason to revert back to the Education Act. None. This is purely a politicking move with no upside other than to appease a part of his voting base, who voted in favor of a motion to inform parents when children join GSA's.

Ric McIver and a couple of other MLA's pleaded against them doing this:

UCP members ignore MLA pleas to vote against gay-straight alliance motion

The motion passed with 57 per cent support even though members were being urged to vote against it by Calgary-Hays MLA Ric McIver, Rimbey-Rocky Mountain House-Sundre MLA Jason Nixon, and Chestermere-Rocky View MLA Leela Aheer.

"This is about outing gay kids," McIver said, as he was jeered by the crowd. "Don't be called the Lake of Fire party, I'm begging you.

"This will really severely hurt our chances at winning. Don't do that to yourself."

Brian Coldwell, a pastor, said the motion is about parental rights.

"Governments and activists cannot have more authority over children than parents," he told the crowd. "It's not about anti-gay. It's about fundamental, God-given freedoms."

Aheer argued freedoms extend to everyone, including the right for children to have safe spaces.

"Please vote against this resolution," she said.

That article there sums up what's broken in our democracy. Policy and platforms are determined in the sausage making political process rather than by the people on election day. The activists and single issue special interest on both the left and right know that their policies don't have broad appeal, but also know that a lack of broad participation at the party level gives them an amplified voice in party leadership races and policy conventions and that's where they focus their efforts.

Honestly, If you are fiscally conservative and not too fussed about social issues and wonder why this election appears to you to be a choice between a giant d&^$@ and a turd sandwich, it's because the choice that is acceptable to your viewpoint isn't being presented to you on election day. It's presented to you in the bowels of party politics and the social conservative activists are counting on your apathy at that level to amplify their views on policy than their actual numbers in the voting population would otherwise have. I'm sure like 85-90% of UCP voters would be against repealing the aspects of Bill 24 that protect GSAs in their current form, but here we are. If you're pissed off, get involved.

[PsYcNeT]

Hmm yes the last 40+ years of birthrates sure seem to coincide with economic factors.





https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...014001-eng.htm

Face it, if you want replacement birthrates you have to make children financially viable. Since we live in a world where a very small percentage (less than 30%) of households have the old-school single-earner makeup, childcare is more necessary than ever. If costs remain the same, then these numbers need to be shored up with increased immigration.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

If you're pissed off, get involved.

You and I don’t often agree, but you hit the nail on the head with that statement. Being frustrated rarely fixes anything.

People these days appear to have become so complacent and reliant on someone else fixing their problems that they rarely consider the possibility that they themselves could be part of the solution.

[dsavillian]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Honest question for those who have kids in daycare/childcare. When you say you are spending $x dollars per day/month is that the up front cost? ie what you are cutting a cheque for? I'd be curious to see the actual cost once the tax deduction is taken into account. It's probably a simple calculation and could be estimated but I don't know the numbers and tax is not my business so I am not familiar. What I'm saying is how does the actual cost of what you are paying compare to the proposed models some of the parties are coming out with?

I don't remember the exact values, but we pay around 11k in daycare costs and I think my wife has to claim the credits because she's the lower earner. The max she can claim is around 8k IIRC and it counts the same as any other non refundable tax credit (which is 15% I think)


The refund helps, but it's not like we are getting 50% off of our day care costs after our tax refund.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Hmm yes the last 40+ years of birthrates sure seem to coincide with economic factors.





https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...014001-eng.htm

Face it, if you want replacement birthrates you have to make children financially viable. Since we live in a world where a very small percentage (less than 30%) of households have the old-school single-earner makeup, childcare is more necessary than ever. If costs remain the same, then these numbers need to be shored up with increased immigration.

It's not just financially viable. With two income households the idea of having more than 2 kids just seems exhausting. Two professionals could afford more but where are they going to find the time to take care of them all?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

You're missing the point.

It doesn't matter how much they are getting back if they don't have a job, or hope to grow a business, etc. The data is clear that child care costs are NOT what is making the birth rate fall, it's the poor economic outlook.

Until we remove the barriers to economic growth the subsidy for daycare is irrelevant.

Lower the tax burden for job creators. Get a pipeline built. Stand up for Alberta's economic interests. Stop piling on debt/future taxes without reason.

Those are the things that will help families the most.

I wonder where our future job creators come from, I generally assume they have to be born or come into the country.

It’a also worth point out that your assertion of the bolder above is wilfully ignorant of the connection between the two. The poor economic outlook means people cannot afford childcare, making childcare affordable is a very valid way of solving that problem in part. You’re presenting a catch 22 in which there is no way to justify having the childcare burden reduced. “We don’t need a subsidy because we need to focus on improving the economy first” becomes “We don’t need a subsidy because the economy is good enough for people to afford childcare.”

The “clear” answer is that this subsidy would help families right now, when they need it most.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

It's cool to be against childcare subsidies, but on the other hand, you should in turn support increased immigration.

We're in the midst of a natural-born Canadian birthrate that's below replacement, and childcare costs are a huge reason for that. Our taxbase will collapse if we don't do one or the other.

I’ll add government support for in vitro. Lots of families that wish they could go this route. Either that or we’ll eventually need to increase immigration. Tax base has got to come from somewhere.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

I’ll add government support for in vitro. Lots of families that wish they could go this route. Either that or we’ll eventually need to increase immigration. Tax base has got to come from somewhere.

We'd likely get a double bang for our buck (no pun intended) with this. This would likely lead to lower risk pregnancies and lower health care costs as a result.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by dsavillian

I don't remember the exact values, but we pay around 11k in daycare costs and I think my wife has to claim the credits because she's the lower earner. The max she can claim is around 8k IIRC and it counts the same as any other non refundable tax credit (which is 15% I think)


The refund helps, but it's not like we are getting 50% off of our day care costs after our tax refund.

Thanks. Maybe the solution would be to change how child care costs are deducted thus allowing parents to recoup more of the cost but still retain much of their choice as to where to send their kids. Each Province could set up the deductions as they see fit to suit their purpose. Seems to be simpler than starting a whole new state supported system and the costs that probably go along with it.

[PsYcNeT]

While we're at it, let's talk about student loan forgiveness.

Speaking personally, I'm in my 30s and my wife and I only started trying last year, which plays pretty notably into the second chart above (we're in week 17, woop). Why did we wait? Same reason most do; financial stability to afford childcare costs, which is notably hampered by paying off student loans for so many years.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I have a bad feeling that if UCP win and they are unable to suddenly change the fortunes of Alberta's economy where will their rage be placed next?

As in other parts of the world, it's minority groups that get scapegoated by the angry masses. The UCP, it seems, is always the party that have bigots and really make divisive behaviour common place.

Right wing parties are always the tent for the worst types of people - I'm not saying all conservatives are racists and bigots but why do the racists and bigots always find their home there?

Even Kenney himself has peddled minority fearing garbage on twitter when he was a fed. Now this GSA stuff.

The UCP have at its base a lake of fire component and that's who they will pander to especially if they face the same difficulties as NDP did with getting pipelines moving forward or any other difficulty in their economic platform. They will have to show something and typically what these types of parties show is lowest common denominator thinking. It seen over and over with candidates who have to give up because of terrible comments.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

While we're at it, let's talk about student loan forgiveness.

Speaking personally, I'm in my 30s and my wife and I only started trying last year, which plays pretty notably into the second chart above (we're in week 17, woop). Why did we wait? Same reason most do; financial stability to afford childcare costs, which is notably hampered by paying off student loans for so many years.

Agreed. When I graduated they had system in place which essentially forgave a portion of your loan right from the start. That coupled with living in a city with a terrible economy (ie super low cost of living) allowed me to really accelerate paying off my loans. I'd like to see something like a partial forgiveness or alternatively a yearly deduction for a certain number of years that is tied to residing in the province you went to school. In other words if you stay and contribute to the economy of the province then there is a tax break for you, If you leave then too bad, the Province is not going to subsidize your loan anymore.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I have a bad feeling that if UCP win and they are unable to suddenly change the fortunes of Alberta's economy where will their rage be placed next?

As in other parts of the world, it's minority groups that get scapegoated by the angry masses. The UCP, it seems, is always the party that have bigots and really make divisive behaviour common place.

Right wing parties are always the tent for the worst types of people - I'm not saying all conservatives are racists and bigots but why do the racists and bigots always find their home there?

Even Kenney himself has peddled minority fearing garbage on twitter when he was a fed. Now this GSA stuff.

The UCP have at its base a lake of fire component and that's who they will pander to especially if they face the same difficulties as NDP did with getting pipelines moving forward or any other difficulty in their economic platform. They will have to show something and typically what these types of parties show is lowest common denominator thinking. It seen over and over with candidates who have to give up because of terrible comments.

Ottawa, and if you ask me that is how Kenney is going to engineer it.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

While we're at it, let's talk about student loan forgiveness.

Speaking personally, I'm in my 30s and my wife and I only started trying last year, which plays pretty notably into the second chart above (we're in week 17, woop). Why did we wait? Same reason most do; financial stability to afford childcare costs, which is notably hampered by paying off student loans for so many years.

Disagree. I paid off my loans, now why should i pay off someone elses through my taxes? It was tough and had to stay at home a bit longer to get it done. I think it even helped me with credit and tought me financial responsibility.

Sorry. A big no. Loan forgiveness will only give post secondary instituations the green light to raise fees.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm generally in favour of the subsidy, so let me say that. I think it's a burden on young families to have to pay so much for childcare, and I do think that it's good for the economy to have a larger working population. But I do want to ask, hopefully without getting flamed, how much the province/everyone should pay for choices that individuals make?

I'm not sure I buy the argument that it's better for the economy to have a larger working population. By that reasoning, shouldn't the government subsidize home cleaning services so more Albertans can hire people to clean their houses instead of doing it themselves?

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

It's cool to be against childcare subsidies, but on the other hand, you should in turn support increased immigration.

We're in the midst of a natural-born Canadian birthrate that's below replacement, and childcare costs are a huge reason for that. Our taxbase will collapse if we don't do one or the other.

Polls show most mothers would prefer to stay home with young children if they could afford to. So it may be more effective to combat declining birth rates with improved parental leave benefits, than with subsidized childcare.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/186050/...side-home.aspx

[GGG]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

I’ll add government support for in vitro. Lots of families that wish they could go this route. Either that or we’ll eventually need to increase immigration. Tax base has got to come from somewhere.

This would save money as you can limit it to single embryo implantation which reduces multiples and pre-mature babies. Quebec does this and I believe there were studies to show its cost effectiveness.

[dsavillian]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Thanks. Maybe the solution would be to change how child care costs are deducted thus allowing parents to recoup more of the cost but still retain much of their choice as to where to send their kids. Each Province could set up the deductions as they see fit to suit their purpose. Seems to be simpler than starting a whole new state supported system and the costs that probably go along with it.

Could be, but that only helps those that can afford it to begin with.

If you have trouble with the out of pocket costs, the subsidy route is the better option.

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Disagree. I paid off my loans, now why should i pay off someone elses through my taxes? It was tough and had to stay at home a bit longer to get it done. I think it even helped me with credit and tought me financial responsibility.

Sorry. A big no. Loan forgiveness will only give post secondary instituations the green light to raise fees.

I also agree with this. At the time I decided not to go to post secondary based on my own cost benefit analysis. Why would I want to pay off other peoples education. If we made a systematic shift that future generations received free education going forward that is fine with me but no way I am paying for other peoples outstanding loans. Now if they want to pay off my line of credit or my mortgage we can start talking!

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Disagree. I paid off my loans, now why should i pay off someone elses through my taxes? It was tough and had to stay at home a bit longer to get it done. I think it even helped me with credit and tought me financial responsibility.

Sorry. A big no. Loan forgiveness will only give post secondary instituations the green light to raise fees.

The fact that you were able to "stay at home" is huge relative to the experience most of us had to go through in school.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

I’ll add government support for in vitro. Lots of families that wish they could go this route. Either that or we’ll eventually need to increase immigration. Tax base has got to come from somewhere.

Several European countries do this. And has been pointed out, it also reduces health care costs.