Edmonton is No Good VI: Chia•den•freu•de

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by neo45

Gulutzan doesn’t get enough hate on here for what a terrible terrible coach he was. I maintain the reason the Oilers had one good year is because of the confidence they got absolutely pumping us to start of their season, which lead to all those Spector articles which are hilarious to read now. The team got shelled and it took months for them get their confidence back that season. The guy had zero instinct and feel for the game.

His game plan to beat was McDavid was to put Dennis Wideman against him. Think about that. He played Dougie on the bottom pairing with Niklas Grossmann.

The best thing possible for a Flames fan is Gulutzan behind the Oilers bench for a few years. The best possible outcome.

I think their entire season comes down to Talbot playing really well.

[Table 5]

Just because Kekalainen didn't draft Puljujarvi doesn't necessarily mean that he thought he was a bad player or he knew some deep dark secret. All we can really glean is that they thought that Dubois was going to be better. For all we know, perhaps he was next on their list.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Kekalainen must have had inside intel on this player than most teams and scouts did not. I'm not so sure the Flames don't pick him at that position and I still have the THN draft issue where they compare both him and Laine and make a compelling case for that he was just as good of a player.

I feel the draft can be a bit of a crapshoot, but most often if an obvious player drops down from their final ranking some teams have figured out a character problem or similar.

Let's take a look at the 2013 draft for example, several of the top ranked players not only fell down in the draft but became total busts. I also remember how big of a deal it was for Seth Jones to drop from 1 to 4, yet in the end he is doing amazing.

I was so upset when Blue Jackets skipped Poolparty, only to have the Oilers pick him right after. Most fans were upset at the time. He clearly has character and low IQ issues, and it's clear that Kekalainen spotted this or found some information that other GMs were not aware. Did Treleving truly intend to pick Tkachuk over Poolparty? We may never know but I wouldn't put it past him that he did some research, considering he ended up with a homerun pick in Tkachuk.

[GioforPM]

PullRV was a consensus top 3 guy as far as any rankings I ever saw were concerned.

Edmonton just sucks at developing and/or keeping top level draft picks: RNH = average player; Hall = got points but not a team guy and trouble off ice; Eberle = same; Yakupov = terrible; PullRV = terrible.

Frankly I'm surprised McDavid is not a huge bust.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

So...Puljujarvi is faking it? What an inanely stupid comment. They really deserve their crappy team.

It is a stupid comment, but consider this: Puljujarvi was mysteriously scratched on 16 February, and it was later disclosed that he had an injury. The next day it was reported that he would be seeking a second medical opinion, which could not be scheduled until 26 February. The team could not make any transactions involving the player until after he had been seen by the doctor, which prevented the Oilers from trading him before the TD, and it also meant that Puljujarvi could not be assigned to the AHL this season. Puljujarvi has a history of avoiding AHL assignments, and his agent recently stated in a Finnish newspaper that he had nothing left to gain from the AHL.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think he has to shoulder some blame here. It is patently evident that Puljujarvi has stood in his own way of development. He has not committed adequately to learning English, and it appears that he has blocked the team from assigning him to the AHL on a few occasions. The Oilers are certainly no good at developing prospects, but Puljujarvi is also no good for making it even more difficult.

All true. I always go back to that quote Treliving made.

"You get one chance to develop a player. ONE."

It's like parenting. If you do it right to start with, you minimize problems and maximize potential.

With parenting at least making mistakes can be understandable, its something we all hopefully iterate and get better at over time.

It's one thing to screw up child rearing... its completely different to be a multi-million dollar entertainment company and to screw up talent development.

Jesse probably needed consistency more than anything else. When he had his own idea on things a team that knows how to do things would say...

"This is how we do things..."

The Oilers are not that team. Their development consists of drafting NHL ready players and leaving the keys on the table.

He was not ready for both the NHL and for the responsibility of his own development.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

PullRV was a consensus top 3 guy as far as any rankings I ever saw were concerned.

Edmonton just sucks at developing and/or keeping top level draft picks: RNH = average player; Hall = got points but not a team guy and trouble off ice; Eberle = same; Yakupov = terrible; PullRV = terrible.

Frankly I'm surprised McDavid is not a huge bust.

McDavid is underperforming compared to Crosby. If that's his real ceiling the Oilers are screwing up his development. Its just is floor is Art Ross contender that doesn't play defense.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

PullRV was a consensus top 3 guy as far as any rankings I ever saw were concerned.

Edmonton just sucks at developing and/or keeping top level draft picks: RNH = average player; Hall = got points but not a team guy and trouble off ice; Eberle = same; Yakupov = terrible; PullRV = terrible.

Frankly I'm surprised McDavid is not a huge bust.

We'll never know the player he could have been.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Kekalainen must have had inside intel on this player than most teams and scouts did not. I'm not so sure the Flames don't pick him at that position and I still have the THN draft issue where they compare both him and Laine and make a compelling case for that he was just as good of a player.

I think you are probably right, but unlike the Oilers, I suspect that Toronto, Columbus, Winnipeg, Vancouver, Calgary, Arizona, and Buffalo had a really good handle on what sort of player Puljujarvi is, what sort of person he is, and the best approach for his successful development.

But I also wonder about this: if the teams did their due diligence, and if Puljujarvi and his agent have been difficult in their discussions with the Oilers about the Ahl, I would think this is something that would have come out in a proper pre-draft investigation of the player. If other teams had done their homework, I imagine this was likely a detractor in their view of Puljujarvi.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think you are probably right, but unlike the Oilers, I suspect that Toronto, Columbus, Winnipeg, Vancouver, Calgary, Arizona, and Buffalo had a really good handle on what sort of player Puljujarvi is, what sort of person he is, and the best approach for his successful development.

But I also wonder about this: if the teams did their due diligence, and if Puljujarvi and his agent have been difficult in their discussions with the Oilers about the Ahl, I would think this is something that would have come out in a proper pre-draft investigation of the player. If other teams had done their homework, I imagine this was likely a detractor in their view of Puljujarvi.

The Oilers have a habit of promising their top prospects a straight route to the NHL anyway. Even if they did their due diligence, they would have given in likely.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by GGG

This athlete used his leverage to maximize his earnings as early as possible. His agent negotiated well. He won. He was smart to do it.

People are arguing he should have waited to take less money and less term while absorbing risk. That would be dumb.

didn't Johnny sign a 6 year deal?

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It is a stupid comment, but consider this: Puljujarvi was mysteriously scratched on 16 February, and it was later disclosed that he had an injury. The next day it was reported that he would be seeking a second medical opinion, which could not be scheduled until 26 February. The team could not make any transactions involving the player until after he had been seen by the doctor, which prevented the Oilers from trading him before the TD, and it also meant that Puljujarvi could not be assigned to the AHL this season. Puljujarvi has a history of avoiding AHL assignments, and his agent recently stated in a Finnish newspaper that he had nothing left to gain from the AHL.

There is definitely some gamesmanship going on here. The Oilers are frantically flailing to recover some value from him or they would have completely Sourey'd him long ago and left him in the AHL.

He is a perfect example of why trading their 1st round pick maximizes the value of the pick. Poor Evan Bouchard...

Let someone else develop players and then trade for them.

They probably could have had Adam Larsson or a comparable player for their 2016 1st round pick.

Now they will receive probably a 3rd round pick 3 years later... if that.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

didn't Johnny sign a 6 year deal?

Was he offered an 8 year deal with a higher cap hit a year before he came an RFA?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GGG

Was he offered an 8 year deal with a higher cap hit a year before he came an RFA?

Who knows. What I do know is that it wouldn't have been higher because he scored less that year. Just like if McDavid waited until the RFA year, he could have had an even better contract.

I'm sure lots of GMs approach RFAs 2 years out and want to start talks and the agents just shut it down.

[Johnhitbox]

I know a allot of people say they feel bad for Mcdavid and the oilers fans.

Not me, I love it.


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[stemit14]

Some people are suggesting McDavid did the safe move anyone else would do by signing the $100 million eight year contract. I don’t think that’s right. McDavid’s contract (and Draisaitl’s contract) set the market to what it is today. McDavid absolutely should have signed an offer sheet with any willing team after his entry-level contract ended. Plenty of teams would have stepped right up and virtually offered him anything he wanted in terms of money and term.

I could be wrong but I think the maximum amount of the cap that could be devoted to a single player at that time was something like $14-15 million. If that’s the case, he could could have signed a 5 year contract for $15 million per year. The oilers would have matched that offer rather than lose their golden goose. That earns him approximately $75 million in that contract and makes him a UFA at the age of 26. At which point, he would be eligible to sign a contract with any team and would probably get $20 million per year for 8 years (provides there are no new limitations in the next CBA). That puts his career earnings at more than $235 million in salary alone while still getting to choose which team he gets to play for during his prime years.

Even considering the unlikely possibility that his career ends early due to injury (at say age 25), he would have been smarter to put himself in better control of his destiny. He probably feels trapped and pressured right now cause he’s wasting his talent in garbageville. He got scammed by that franchise to take max term at a discount so that they could “build a contender around him.” That might be possible with other franchises but not when it’s the oilers.


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[stazzy33]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Neither of these two things are factually accurate. It’s those type of posts that get quoted/referenced on an Oiler board and used as examples to paint all flames fans as no-nothing-morons.

We may be a bunch "no-nothing-morons" but at least we know when to use the right know, you know, no?

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by GGG

McDavid is underperforming compared to Crosby. If that's his real ceiling the Oilers are screwing up his development. Its just is floor is Art Ross contender that doesn't play defense.

The thing about developing a player is that it is not solely about performance.

A player is one part of a team. Part of their development as a player is how they connect with, play with, and relate to teammates.

That is what the veteran presence did for Crosby early in his career. It helped to reinforce and instil healthy professionalism, and reciprocal conscious behavioural respect between him and his teammates.

Crosby wasn't tasked with putting the team on his back as a 20-year-old in order to win a game. By proxy, his efforts wouldn't unintendedly devalue his teammate's effort either.

It is self-evident that a player like Zak Kassian (for example) could feel like his role doesn't matter (which it doesn't most nights) because if he doesn't have a great game, it usually isn't the difference between winning and losing.

If McDavid doesn't have a great game it is the difference between winning and losing for them.

This is the burden of having a great player without a great supporting cast.

It can make team building more complex because responsibility can become disproportionally dispersed, in the case of the Oilers... grossly disproportionated.

If a situation like this is not properly and consciously managed by the coaching staff and the team, it ultimately becomes unconsciously managed by individuals.

It can lead to players feeling like they have diminished value, obfuscating their own responsibility and feeding poor relatedness between players. This can hurt team building, negatively impacting player performance and team performance.

Again... this is the professionalism that veterans can actively or passively mentor in others by how they conduct themselves.

Oilers management either doesn't understand that all of this is happening and has happened... or they are desperately trying to figure out how to replace a crumbling foundation under what they have constructed... or both.

[dino7c]

So what is the Oilers record without McDavid this season?

[MrButtons]

Don't think this has been posted but another a-hole tweet

https://twitter.com/user/status/1101223644548587520