2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[icecube]

Declining Kovalchuk is still better than declining Neal or status quo Neal or rebound Neal, despite their difference in age.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Incogneto

this is wholly and unequivocally untrue. He was one if - if not THE - best flame on the ice last night.

That has never and probably will never be the case.

Re-watching the game literally right now. Tons of plays died on his stick just like every game. His line got nothing going 5 on 5.

He is also allergic to finishing his check

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by icecube

Declining Kovalchuk is still better than declining Neal or status quo Neal or rebound Neal, despite their difference in age.

Just not prepared to agree.

Here is Kovalchuk this year vs Neal from his year in Vegas.



If Neal rebounds a bit he's the better bet given Kovalchuk's age. Even this year the two don't look much different and Neal is having a terrible season.

They both need to bounce back to make their contracts anything but an albatross, and I'll take the younger player in that gamble.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by neo45

That has never and probably will never be the case.

Re-watching the game literally right now. Tons of plays died on his stick just like every game. His line got nothing going 5 on 5.

He is also allergic to finishing his check

Add me to the Neal played a good game last night. He was the driving player on Calgary's first goal in winning an puck battle and finding Brodie. Noticeable a few more times on the night as well.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by neo45

That has never and probably will never be the case.

Re-watching the game literally right now. Tons of plays died on his stick just like every game. His line got nothing going 5 on 5.

He is also allergic to finishing his check

Honestly think you are seeing what you want to see there.

He was pretty good last night, maybe not the best player on the ice, but probably his best overall game as a Flames player.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Add me to the Neal played a good game last night. He was the driving player on Calgary's first goal in winning an puck battle and finding Brodie. Noticeable a few more times on the night as well.

See now you are just being disingenuous to try and make Neal look better.

Brodie kept the puck in at blue line. Jankowski forced a turnover down low. Neal then passes the puck back to the blue line, which is an easy AF play. Brodie draws Pavelski too far out then makes a pass to Giordano who now has space. Gio gets his shot through where Bennett and Jankow screen the goalie and it goes off one or both of them.

Not only was Neal not the “driving force” on that play, he literally did the least to cause the goal out of all five guys.

The driver of that goal if you have to give it to someone is Brodie. He pinched to keep the play alive and created the chance by getting Pavelski to come out too far to block a point shot that never happened.


Neal made an easy pass then camped at the hashmarks. Which is by no means the wrong thing to do as the winger but you’re really bending the narrative to try and give him the credit on that goal.

[TheScorpion]

I think you're looking way too hard into this.

Why do you want to think a Flame had a bad game? It almost seems like you're actively rooting against this player.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Honestly think you are seeing what you want to see there.

He was pretty good last night, maybe not the best player on the ice, but probably his best overall game as a Flames player.

Why would I want to see a Flames player on a long contract play bad? Makes zero sense from a fan perspective.

Makes more sense that Flames fans don’t like to think about how bad he is and therefore focus on the occasional good play while tuning out all the bad ones.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by neo45

See now you are just being disingenuous to try and make Neal look better...

Several posters who have a different opinion about a player's performance are not being "disingenuous." I think the fact that you seem to be on an island on this matter is a strong indication that you are probably not seeing things as clearly as you think you are.

I thought James Neal was quite good last night.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by neo45

Why would I want to see a Flames player on a long contract play bad? Makes zero sense from a fan perspective.

Makes more sense that Flames fans don’t like to think about how bad he is and therefore focus on the occasional good play while tuning out all the bad ones.

That makes as much sense as a few fans being so fixated on a player's shortcomings that they are oblivious to his strengths. The reads on James Neal are similar to those on Mike Smith—for some posters he seemingly can never do anything right, and every one of his mistakes is exaggerated.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Several posters who have a different opinion about a player's performance are not being "disingenuous." I think the fact that you seem to be on an island on this matter is a strong indication that you are probably not seeing things as clearly as you think you are.

I thought James Neal was quite good last night.

I don’t think it’s necessarily disingenuous to think he was good last night

I think it’s disingenuous to call him the driving force on a goal where the puck touched every other guy on the ice before going in.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by neo45

Why would I want to see a Flames player on a long contract play bad? Makes zero sense from a fan perspective.

Makes more sense that Flames fans don’t like to think about how bad he is and therefore focus on the occasional good play while tuning out all the bad ones.

Because it helps fit the narrative of your post and since he has been bad now any bad thing he does jumps out more than others doing the same thing.

He's been terrible all season. Everyone agrees with that. Except he was actually good last night and had a good game.

Originally Posted by neo45

I don’t think it’s necessarily disingenuous to think he was good last night

I think it’s disingenuous to call him the driving force on a goal where the puck touched every other guy on the ice before going in.

He made a good play to retrieve the puck from the corner and made a great pass to Brodie which opened up the ice leading directly to goal.

He made probably the key play on that goal with the pass to Brodie, and not disingenuous at all to say he was a key factor in the play and really calling that play "Easy AF" just proves the point that you are seeing what you want to see and not willing to give Neal any credit for good plays.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by neo45

I don’t think it’s necessarily disingenuous to think he was good last night

I think it’s disingenuous to call him the driving force on a goal where the puck touched every other guy on the ice before going in.

I think it is disingenuous to characterize Neal's play on the first goal "easy AF."

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by neo45

See now you are just being disingenuous to try and make Neal look better.

Brodie kept the puck in at blue line. Jankowski forced a turnover down low. Neal then passes the puck back to the blue line, which is an easy AF play. Brodie draws Pavelski too far out then makes a pass to Giordano who now has space. Gio gets his shot through where Bennett and Jankow screen the goalie and it goes off one or both of them.

Not only was Neal not the “driving force” on that play, he literally did the least to cause the goal out of all five guys.

The driver of that goal if you have to give it to someone is Brodie. He pinched to keep the play alive and created the chance by getting Pavelski to come out too far to block a point shot that never happened.


Neal made an easy pass then camped at the hashmarks. Which is by no means the wrong thing to do as the winger but you’re really bending the narrative to try and give him the credit on that goal.

Now you're accusing me of being disingenuous? You're on a roll today man, well done.

Neal made a great quick pass through traffic to the middle to Brodie which moved the defense of the play from one side to other quickly and it resulted in a goal.

Once again though man, I'm allowed to disagree with you without you insulting or degrading my opinion. You need to get over yourself.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Neal made a great quick pass through traffic to the middle to Brodie which moved the defense of the play from one side to other quickly and it resulted in a goal.

So a very simple play that’s made 100 times a game, and would be expected to be successfully executed by even an average AHL player earning 50k/year, is now being lauded as being the driving force behind the first goal.

Neal’s assist the prior game in Carolina was genuinely a good play, Neal’s involvement in this goal was inconsequential.

The embarrassing thing is just how low the Neal apologists have had to set the bar to continue the defence of the player. When was the last time he used his stick to score again?

Kowalchuk for Neal every day, and twice on Sunday’s! Do it Tre.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure how you can speak in certainties in this area.

Kovalchuk's contract is bigger for the "window" that Calgary is trying to take advantage of.

750k bigger. That's less than we're paying Prout or Czarnik to sit in the press box. The big difference would come in the lone 2019-2020 season where we need to penny pinch because in 2020 we have around 16M coming off the books. Meanwhile we stand to extend our window with the cap savings in 2022, which is Gaudreau's final year of his deal and could determine whether Gaudreau signs and extension.

And specifically pertaining to contracts, Neal's buyout if it came to that (say, 2020 offseason) would be on the books

Neal is no defensive dynamo, but Kovalchuk is the King's third worst relative corsi player this year, he isn't playing all that well and is more likely to keep going in that direction at his age than Neal will in the next couple of seasons.

I agree, Kovalchuk's CF%s are not great. I also don't think Neal's CF% has been half decent away from Bennett. Kovalchuk has a point on 85% of goals scored when he is on the ice and his P/60 of 1.64 would be 7th best on this team. I believe Bennett would positively influence Kovalchuk's CF% and Kovalchuk would positively influence the overall offense on that line.

But yes, you make a good point - it really isn't a sure thing.

[AC]

Duhatschek Notebook: Some reasonable trade scenarios that benefit both sides
https://theathletic.com/808050/2019/...it-both-sides/

Stone to the Calgary Flames for a first-round pick
I’m throwing this out as a possibility only because I think Stone really, really tempts Calgary in the short term. Now, scoring hasn’t been an issue for them this year, and so they don’t actually need to bolster that part of their team. Furthermore, they hope to see James Neal find his stride in the next two months and if they brought in Stone, that would almost certainly limit his ice time and effectiveness. But Stone is such a complete player and would probably be a relatively seamless fit (his brother Michael plays for the Flames, although he’s missed most of the season because of injury). But that family connection should provide a little intel as to what Mark might be thinking. And if you’re Calgary, with unexpectedly the top record in the Western Conference, and if you can add a versatile player like Mark Stone – well, that’s a war-room call that’s worth pondering.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think it is disingenuous to characterize Neal's play on the first goal "easy AF."

Nope. Every NHL player should be able to make that pass back to the blue line. It’s an easy play by NHL standards. The defenders give you that pass.

I said he didn’t do anything wrong on the goal. But he was more passenger than driver.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by neo45

Nope. Every NHL player should be able to make that pass back to the blue line. It’s an easy play by NHL standards. The defenders give you that pass.

I said he didn’t do anything wrong on the goal. But he was more passenger than driver.

I am going to repeat what Bingo said: You need to get over yourself.

Neal played fine last night. I was encouraged, and with how difficult it would be to trade him I think he provides the team positive results moving forward.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by AC

Duhatschek Notebook: Some reasonable trade scenarios that benefit both sides
https://theathletic.com/808050/2019/...it-both-sides/

If Stone only costs a 1st round pick then it is an obvious no-brainer for Calgary.

However, it won't only cost a 1st round pick.