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Old 02-08-2019, 11:01 AM   #9181
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i'm prepared to withold my judgement on Neal until after I see what he does in the playoff season.

he was brought in to be the guy who can score goals and play in clutch games. I'm prepared to give him that opportunity.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:02 AM   #9182
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Kovalchuk has never and will never be a lesser player than James Neal.
He's 36 in two months.

There is a very real possibility that he will be in a pretty sharp decline for the final two years of his deal.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:04 AM   #9183
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Any decision on Neal has to come down to one single evaluation.

Is this James Neal version here to stay, or has a guy shooting at 30% of his normal career shooting percentage having an inexplicably bad (unlucky) year?

If it's the former than Kovalchuk would be a minor upgrade if you ignore all intangibles, and has a shorter contract.

If it's the latter you're selling on a down season and probably getting the lesser player for the next two years.
Neal’s only skill is that shooting percentage, which looks like is gone (could come back, but likely not)

Even in that one category Kovalchuk is better. He’s put up 52 goals. He has one of the best shots of all time. It’s not just a minor upgrade.

He is better than Neal in every other aspect of the game hands down. Neal is an average passer and stick handler, and is an awful defensive player.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:05 AM   #9184
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He's 36 in two months.

There is a very real possibility that he will be in a pretty sharp decline for the final two years of his deal.
Kovalchuk is a notch below talent of legends like Selanne and Jagr. I don't see him falling off a cliff unless he gets injured.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:06 AM   #9185
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Originally Posted by killer_carlson View Post
i'm prepared to withold my judgement on Neal until after I see what he does in the playoff season.

he was brought in to be the guy who can score goals and play in clutch games. I'm prepared to give him that opportunity.
Last night was a clutch game and he was really bad.

He was better the previous two games, but that was the biggest game of the season and he looked like the guy from the start of the season
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:07 AM   #9186
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This is a brutal take. Kovalchuk has killed penalties oh a top-in-league PK unit before. He's led the NHL in shorthanded goals. That's one dimensional? When's the last time you saw Gaudreau or Tkachuk or Neal killing penalties?

He was every bit a two-way player during his devils tenure.
Wait - we are now comparing 2009-13 Kovalchuk to present day Neal, Gaudreau, Tkachuk?
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:08 AM   #9187
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Neal’s only skill is that shooting percentage, which looks like is gone (could come back, but likely not)

Even in that one category Kovalchuk is better. He’s put up 52 goals. He has one of the best shots of all time. It’s not just a minor upgrade.

He is better than Neal in every other aspect of the game hands down. Neal is an average passer and stick handler, and is an awful defensive player.
Why are you comparing James Neal in a down season to Kovalchuk from 13 years ago?

The NHL has never been faster, banking on a 36 year old to keep up is a bad bet and not one I'd take.

Don't get me wrong, Neal makes me nervous, but I'm not sure getting a bigger (but shorter) contract for a much older player is the way to go
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:08 AM   #9188
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SJ doesn't really have the assets to do a whole lot. Unless they trade off their team, they don't have the bullets in the chamber to do much. From the Karlson trade they have a number of conditions, so those picks can not be traded until things play out which mean for this trade deadline they can't move any of these picks:

1st rounders for '19, '20, '21, and '22
2nd rounders '19 (theirs and the one they got from Florida) and '21
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:09 AM   #9189
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Has anyone actually watched Kovalchuk this year?

From what I heard earlier in the season, he was racking up points at the expense of team defense. I thought he was also benched as well.

It doesn't really matter what Kovalchuk was before, what matters is what is he now?

You have to be careful comparing stats for a player who had consistent top 6 and powerplay time versus a guy like Neal who has been stuck on the bottom 6 for pretty much the whole season.

Neal's play seems to have turned lately. He's controlling the puck a lot more and using his size. He still needs to shoot the puck a lot more. I wish someone would tell him to make sure he gets at least 5 shots on net every game.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:10 AM   #9190
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Last night was a clutch game and he was really bad.

He was better the previous two games, but that was the biggest game of the season and he looked like the guy from the start of the season
I thought Neal was one of the better Flames last night. If anything, I think he's playing too nice with his linemates, looking for Bennett and Janko too much, when he should just be more selfish and shoot the damn puck. He's the best scorer of the three so i'm not sure why he keeps trying to set them up.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:11 AM   #9191
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Kovalchuk makes 6.25 per with a nmc until he is 38.

Are the flames trying to swap one terrible contract for another, or are the flames looking to actually get better?

James Neal sucks.

So does kovalchuk.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:11 AM   #9192
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Why are you comparing James Neal in a down season to Kovalchuk from 13 years ago?

The NHL has never been faster, banking on a 36 year old to keep up is a bad bet and not one I'd take.

Don't get me wrong, Neal makes me nervous, but I'm not sure getting a bigger (but shorter) contract for a much older player is the way to go
Fine compare them this season. Kovalchuk is doubling his production on the worst offensive team in the league. Neal is on the second best scoring team in the league, top 6 in ice time for forwards, and is producing at a lower rate than Garnett Hathaway.

Kovy is faster than Neal, not that eirther players game is built on speed, but you can be slow-ish and still effective in 2019.

I don’t think it’s fair to call Kovy slow at this point though. By all accounts he still has his legs
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:16 AM   #9193
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Fine compare them this season. Kovalchuk is doubling his production on the worst offensive team in the league. Neal is on the second best scoring team in the league, top 6 in ice time for forwards, and is producing at a lower rate than Garnett Hathaway.

Kovy is faster than Neal, not that eirther players game is built on speed, but you can be slow-ish and still effective in 2019.

I don’t think it’s fair to call Kovy slow at this point though. By all accounts he still has his legs
As I said ... all comes down to Neal and his season. If this is it, you'd have a point. If he bounces back it would be a bad gamble on a 36 year old that is sure to decline.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:18 AM   #9194
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Are the flames trying to swap one terrible contract for another, or are the flames looking to actually get better?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
These two things are not mutually exclusive

Kovy for Neal makes the Flames better and lessens the contract burden. The Russian flight risk is actually a positive in this scenario.

I wish there was a chance Neal voids his own contract to go chase rubles. That would be ideal
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:27 AM   #9195
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These two things are not mutually exclusive

Kovy for Neal makes the Flames better and lessens the contract burden. The Russian flight risk is actually a positive in this scenario.

I wish there was a chance Neal voids his own contract to go chase rubles. That would be ideal
But Kovulchuck signed an "over 35" deal. There will be bigger cap implications if he bolts this time. The team will bear the full cap hit for all the years. That means if Kovalchuck bolts after this season then the Flames would be on the hook for the $6.25 cap hit for 2 years.

The Devils are still paying the recapture penalty.

Last edited by Bleeding Red; 02-08-2019 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:30 AM   #9196
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As I said ... all comes down to Neal and his season. If this is it, you'd have a point. If he bounces back it would be a bad gamble on a 36 year old that is sure to decline.
Kovy is signed until age 37 and has never not been a far superior player to James Neal, who is signed until age 35 himself, which includes an additional two years of team commitment.

You can say what you want about Neal the person wanting to be here* and Kovalchuk the husband preferring Los Angeles, but in a vacuum, the risk with Neal is far greater, and always was even in the offseason with Neal coming off a 25 goal season and Kovalchuk coming from the KHL.

*not that Neal picked Calgary for any reason other than $$$
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:31 AM   #9197
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I would easily do Kovalchuk for Neal. Doesn't mean the Kings would.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:33 AM   #9198
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But Kovulchuck signed an "over 35" deal. There will be bigger cap implications if he bolts this time. The team will bear the full cap hit for all the years. That means if Kovalchuck bolts after this season then the Flames would be on the hook for the $6.25 cap hit for 2 years.

The Devils are still paying the recapture penalty.
I’m actually confused about this. Isn’t Montreal off the hook for Plekanec’s cap hit? That was 35+


Not saying you’re wrong but I don’t think the rule is clear
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:35 AM   #9199
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Kovy is signed until age 37 and has never not been a far superior player to James Neal, who is signed until age 35 himself, which includes an additional two years of team commitment.

You can say what you want about Neal the person wanting to be here* and Kovalchuk the husband preferring Los Angeles, but in a vacuum, the risk with Neal is far greater, and always was even in the offseason with Neal coming off a 25 goal season and Kovalchuk coming from the KHL.

*not that Neal picked Calgary for any reason other than $$$
Not sure how you can speak in certainties in this area.

Kovalchuk's contract is bigger for the "window" that Calgary is trying to take advantage of.

Kovalchuk's history doesn't interest me in the least ... we didn't exactly see Jagr from the Penguins when he came in last year.

Neal is no defensive dynamo, but Kovalchuk is the King's third worst relative corsi player this year, he isn't playing all that well and is more likely to keep going in that direction at his age than Neal will in the next couple of seasons.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:40 AM   #9200
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Last night was a clutch game and he was really bad.

He was better the previous two games, but that was the biggest game of the season and he looked like the guy from the start of the season
this is wholly and unequivocally untrue. He was one if - if not THE - best flame on the ice last night.
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