2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Flash Walken]

To Calgary:

Zucarello
Hayes
50% retained

To Rangers:

Calgary 2019 1st
Calgary 2020 3rd
Dube
Neal

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I mean, I'd hesitate before speaking in absolutes. We all said the same things about Hamilton last year. "He's not being traded, he skates like a deer, he'd cost 20 first-rounders, he's going nowhere..." and then, he was gone.

That was also after a horrid finish to a horrid season. Teams in the Flames' current position don't sell pending UFAs who play key roles. They try to load up on them.

Treliving loves making big trades, especially in the summer -- he's made one every single year he's been a GM. Trading Brodie actually makes a great deal of sense in the long run -- he's not versatile, he's not cost-controlled, and he's playing a position where the Flames have a lot of depth.

What are you talking about?

1) Brodie is a player who has had success as a PKer, PP, and ES throughout his career. He leads the team in 27+ minute playoff games. He has played all his playoff games on the side of the ice he is not natural at and still has excellent playoff numbers. He is a top pairing two way defenseman who has played a part in every single great season Giordano has had. Your definition of versatile seems hopelessly limited to "not physical", which is highly outdated. Brodie is also a player with some of the best edgework and backhand puck skills in the NHL, things that don't just grow on trees. He may not be Chris Pronger but he is sure as #### a lot more vversatile han you seem to think. But lemme guess, because he couldn't carry the likes of Dennis Wideman two years ago, got saddled with possession Black Hole Mike Stone after that (and still got him an inflated AF contract), and had zero chemistry with offensive black hole Tracis Hamonic, he's just a mediocre player being boosted by Giordano. Repeat after me - the Flames have asked Brodie to play with an assortment of ovefmatched players, they've asked him to play two different sides of the ice, they've asked him to play top PP (to top 10 results), top competition (to some of the best 5v5 goal differentials in the NHL), and despite some stumbles stood by him - but he is not versatile. What?

2) 4.25M next year for our #2 Dman is not cost controlled? Are you just being dense? #2Dmen make 6.5+ million easily. We are paying our #4 Dman more than our #2 Dman. Our #7 Dman makes 75% of what our #2 Dman makes. If you mean that he lacks term - do you not see the sheery idiocy in a GM acquiring a trade deadline rental at the expense of one whole year of term of a core player - a core player he believed in when the whole world had turned on him after the Gulutzan Debacle?

3) The Flames have a lot of depth of top pairing caliber, excellent skating, right side, 40 pt defensemen? What? Name one not named TJ Brodie.

Hanifin is a LD and had yet to play any RD or Top Pair in his career. He's also been mediocre at best in a middle pairing role on his actual preferred side - he's produced offensively but his play away from the puck has not been good enough for Hamonic to cover entirely.

Hamonic is an offensive black hole and his more average skating would also be exposed with tougher minutes and more minutes which would become a necessity without Brodie. While he was somewhat successful years ago on the Islanders, the league has only gotten faster while he has not. We've also got loftier goals than just winning a playoff series, so the heights of that Islanders team should not be our pinnacle.

Kylington is a LD, and has yet to play any top 4 in his career. His offensive game is also very naturally that of a LD due to his shooting instincts and general use of his forehand.

Valimaki is a LD and can't skate nearly on Brodie's elite level. He has also yet to play any top 4 or RD in his NHL career.

Andersson's skating relative to the modern game is what Dennis Wideman's was to the 2015 game. He's a possession black hole because his feet cannot keep up as a third pair Dman and you want to throw him against the Crosbys of the world with an aging Giordano?

I swear.

[jg13]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I don't agree. Teams that are typically labeled as trade deadline winners rarely are the ones that are left standing when the dust has settled.

2018 - Winner Washington only added a couple depth Dmen. The big "winners" for rentals was Winnipeg and Stastny. SJ and TB made trades that brought players beyond the playoffs.

2017 - Winner Pittsburgh added a couple depth Dmen. Rental winners were Minny getting Hanzel and Washington did pick up Shattenkirk.

2016 - Winner Pittsburgh added depth D (Schulz for a 3rd) and a 4th line forward. Rental winners were Winnipeg getting Ladd, Rangers getting Eric Stall and to a lessor extent Dallas getting Russel and Florida getting Hulder (both brought back 2nd rounders and change).

2015 - Winner Chicago traded for a depth forward.The bigger buyers were TB picking up Coburn and Boston getting Connolly

2014 - This is the first time in which we see a buyer make changes and ended up winning. LA brought in Gaborik and McNabb. Some of the other big trades that year were St Louis picking up Millerand NYR getting Martin St. Louis. Those last two were the big fish available.

I think you have to be careful trying to go all in.

Okay but how about non Stanley Cup winners? What if we play a team in round 2 (San Jose / Vegas / Nashville) that adds a big piece at the deadline, takes us out and they don't win the cup?

Very possible as well.

[TheScorpion]

GranteedEV --

When I say "cost-controlled," I'm talking about guys like Lindholm and Hanifin, who are signed for years going forward at the same (reasonable) salary. Brodie is not. He's a free-agent after 2020, and he'll command an enormous salary as a UFA. It's a signing that I'd be uncomfortable with Treliving making.

My definition of versatile has nothing to do with physicality. That's quite a reach. My definition of versatility has all to do with the fact that Brodie hasn't displayed an ability to replicate his terrific play apart from Giordano, and he hasn't shown he can play the left side. He's also not useful on special teams.

I also think you undersell Hamonic and especially Andersson. Neither of them have shown the incessant volatility that Brodie has. And your assessment hasn't accounted for the very real possibility that Treliving could acquire a replacement for Brodie who ticks many of his boxes.

Finally, I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me "dense." Thanks.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Sounds like he could really improve the 4th line.

I see him as a 3rd line C (Bennett - Hayes - Neal), then push Janko down to the 4th line. This makes the top-9 very formidable.

[bigrangy]

Hamonic at his best is about as good as Brodie is at his worst.

It's my take and I'm sticking by it.

In terms of actual trades I'd like to see, I would love to see the Flames acquire Alex Wennberg. The Flames sorely lack puck distributors but have a lot of finishers.

Ideally it would be Ryan+/Jankowski+ but Wennberg has a big but fair contract that may be tough to squeeze in long term. The Flames don't have a lot of space to add another big contract but if you could do it in the offseason it could be more doable.

Monahan/Backlund/Wennberg/Ryan or Jankowski is a center group that won't lose you any games, especially with the wingers already on the team.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That was also after a horrid finish to a horrid season. Teams in the Flames' current position don't sell pending UFAs who play key roles. They try to load up on them.



What are you talking about?

1) Brodie is a player who has had success as a PKer, PP, and ES throughout his career. He leads the team in 27+ minute playoff games. He has played all his playoff games on the side of the ice he is not natural at and still has excellent playoff numbers. He is a top pairing two way defenseman who has played a part in every single great season Giordano has had. Your definition of versatile seems hopelessly limited to "not physical", which is highly outdated. Brodie is also a player with some of the best edgework and backhand puck skills in the NHL, things that don't just grow on trees. He may not be Chris Pronger but he is sure as #### a lot more vversatile han you seem to think. But lemme guess, because he couldn't carry the likes of Dennis Wideman two years ago, got saddled with possession Black Hole Mike Stone after that (and still got him an inflated AF contract), and had zero chemistry with offensive black hole Tracis Hamonic, he's just a mediocre player being boosted by Giordano. Repeat after me - the Flames have asked Brodie to play with an assortment of ovefmatched players, they've asked him to play two different sides of the ice, they've asked him to play top PP (to top 10 results), top competition (to some of the best 5v5 goal differentials in the NHL), and despite some stumbles stood by him - but he is not versatile. What?

2) 4.25M next year for our #2 Dman is not cost controlled? Are you just being dense? #2Dmen make 6.5+ million easily. We are paying our #4 Dman more than our #2 Dman. Our #7 Dman makes 75% of what our #2 Dman makes. If you mean that he lacks term - do you not see the sheery idiocy in a GM acquiring a trade deadline rental at the expense of one whole year of term of a core player - a core player he believed in when the whole world had turned on him after the Gulutzan Debacle?

3) The Flames have a lot of depth of top pairing caliber, excellent skating, right side, 40 pt defensemen? What? Name one not named TJ Brodie.

Hanifin is a LD and had yet to play any RD or Top Pair in his career. He's also been mediocre at best in a middle pairing role on his actual preferred side - he's produced offensively but his play away from the puck has not been good enough for Hamonic to cover entirely.

Hamonic is an offensive black hole and his more average skating would also be exposed with tougher minutes and more minutes which would become a necessity without Brodie. While he was somewhat successful years ago on the Islanders, the league has only gotten faster while he has not. We've also got loftier goals than just winning a playoff series, so the heights of that Islanders team should not be our pinnacle.

Kylington is a LD, and has yet to play any top 4 in his career. His offensive game is also very naturally that of a LD due to his shooting instincts and general use of his forehand.

Valimaki is a LD and can't skate nearly on Brodie's elite level. He has also yet to play any top 4 or RD in his NHL career.

Andersson's skating relative to the modern game is what Dennis Wideman's was to the 2015 game. He's a possession black hole because his feet cannot keep up as a third pair Dman and you want to throw him against the Crosbys of the world with an aging Giordano?

I swear.

You really really like Brodie, don't you?

You seem to always gloss over the fact that when he HASN'T played with Gio, he has been a bottom pairing D-man.

He is also coming into the last year of a contract where he will be looking for $6M+ a year....

The best thing Treliving could do is trade this asset at its highest point in the offseason to recoup some picks and prospects. I am guessing there is a very good chance this happens, so if I were you, I would buy a big bottle of Jamisons to prepare for this day...

[djsFlames]

I'd do our 1st and Bread for Hayes, or something along those lines. I know it was speculated he would be more expensive than Zuccarello, but worth it for sure. 33 points in 40 games and a +6 on a not great NYR team.

Then flip Brodie after the season and recoup a first (unless he has some kind of unbelievable playoffs with Gio). Move your glut of defencemen up one spot.

[TheScorpion]

I love the idea of getting Wennberg. He's a great buy-low candidate who has real offensive and defensive ability, and he's cost-controlled. I mentioned him in here once as another guy who could really "pop," like Lindholm.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Incogneto

You really really like Brodie, don't you?

You seem to always gloss over the fact that when he HASN'T played with Gio, he has been a bottom pairing D-man.

Because that's not remotely a fact. It's not even a very good opinion.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Because that's not remotely a fact. It's not even a very good opinion.

....Did you watch him the last two years without Gio? he was lost....and -16 both seasons.

...Did you see Hamilton with and without Gio? Thankfully we traded him while his value was high too.

2019 Brodie = 2018 Hamilton

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

To Calgary:

Zucarello
Hayes
50% retained

To Rangers:

Calgary 2019 1st
Calgary 2020 3rd
Dube
Neal

I don't think we need to move our 1st to get rid of Neal, at least not yet.

I think it would make more sense to send Neal off when we need to re-sign players like Jankowski, Andersson, and Kylington. It would make more sense to trade Neal after the 19/20 season if we really needed to trade him off.

[genetic_phreek]

I'd like to see a roster for roster trade one day.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I love the idea of getting Wennberg. He's a great buy-low candidate who has real offensive and defensive ability, and he's cost-controlled. I mentioned him in here once as another guy who could really "pop," like Lindholm.

Would he be available?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That was also after a horrid finish to a horrid season. Teams in the Flames' current position don't sell pending UFAs who play key roles. They try to load up on them.



What are you talking about?

1) Brodie is a player who has had success as a PKer, PP, and ES throughout his career. He leads the team in 27+ minute playoff games. He has played all his playoff games on the side of the ice he is not natural at and still has excellent playoff numbers. He is a top pairing two way defenseman who has played a part in every single great season Giordano has had. Your definition of versatile seems hopelessly limited to "not physical", which is highly outdated. Brodie is also a player with some of the best edgework and backhand puck skills in the NHL, things that don't just grow on trees. He may not be Chris Pronger but he is sure as #### a lot more vversatile han you seem to think. But lemme guess, because he couldn't carry the likes of Dennis Wideman two years ago, got saddled with possession Black Hole Mike Stone after that (and still got him an inflated AF contract), and had zero chemistry with offensive black hole Tracis Hamonic, he's just a mediocre player being boosted by Giordano. Repeat after me - the Flames have asked Brodie to play with an assortment of ovefmatched players, they've asked him to play two different sides of the ice, they've asked him to play top PP (to top 10 results), top competition (to some of the best 5v5 goal differentials in the NHL), and despite some stumbles stood by him - but he is not versatile. What?

2) 4.25M next year for our #2 Dman is not cost controlled? Are you just being dense? #2Dmen make 6.5+ million easily. We are paying our #4 Dman more than our #2 Dman. Our #7 Dman makes 75% of what our #2 Dman makes. If you mean that he lacks term - do you not see the sheery idiocy in a GM acquiring a trade deadline rental at the expense of one whole year of term of a core player - a core player he believed in when the whole world had turned on him after the Gulutzan Debacle?

3) The Flames have a lot of depth of top pairing caliber, excellent skating, right side, 40 pt defensemen? What? Name one not named TJ Brodie.

Hanifin is a LD and had yet to play any RD or Top Pair in his career. He's also been mediocre at best in a middle pairing role on his actual preferred side - he's produced offensively but his play away from the puck has not been good enough for Hamonic to cover entirely.

Hamonic is an offensive black hole and his more average skating would also be exposed with tougher minutes and more minutes which would become a necessity without Brodie. While he was somewhat successful years ago on the Islanders, the league has only gotten faster while he has not. We've also got loftier goals than just winning a playoff series, so the heights of that Islanders team should not be our pinnacle.

Kylington is a LD, and has yet to play any top 4 in his career. His offensive game is also very naturally that of a LD due to his shooting instincts and general use of his forehand.

Valimaki is a LD and can't skate nearly on Brodie's elite level. He has also yet to play any top 4 or RD in his NHL career.

Andersson's skating relative to the modern game is what Dennis Wideman's was to the 2015 game. He's a possession black hole because his feet cannot keep up as a third pair Dman and you want to throw him against the Crosbys of the world with an aging Giordano?

I swear.

Step away from the edge man, you seem way way to invested in this player.

It's pretty apparent to anyone looking objectively that Brodie is really dependent on Giordano to play at a high level.

It's also looking very likely that one of Brodie or Hamonic will be moved either this summer or during next season..it only makes sense. Since there are 3 guys that bring things that Brodie does and none that brings the element that Hamonic does, then there is a logical conclusion to that question as well.

Highly unlikely TJ Brodie is a Flame at this point/tdl next year.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Incogneto

....Did you watch him the last two years without Gio? he was lost....and -16 both seasons.

I watched him a lot more than you did, if your posts are any indication.

Gulutzan's system, playing the left, and playing with terrible partners didn't do him any favours but there was not a single time he was a bottom pair defenseman.

Yes he had a two month slump last year with uncharacteristic giveaways, that had nothing to with whether or not he was playing with Giordano.

The team's play also completely fell off the map after his injury, which wouldn't happen if he were a bottom pair defenseman.

And +/- is a garbage stat. Last year Backlund was -21. This year some of the worst +/- belong to guys like Vlasic, Barkov, Ekman-Larsson, Provorov, Tarasenko, Werenski.

And Hamilton and Brodie have very little in common, other than the fact that neither is a bottom pair defenseman by any definition.

[Bleeding Red]

A lot of proposals hoping to move Neal.

Does he have any value right now? I guess it's pretty low if one has to include something to move him.


Does BT try to move him? I doubt it. He was just signed this summer as a UFA.

What kind of message does that send? "Sign here and if it doesn't work out ASAP we'll move you first chance we get. Luckily we rarely trade with Edmonton."

Who's going to want to sign here? Want to trade for and sign Stone, I bet his agent demands he play on line #1 or forget signing a contract.

Neal's going nowhere.

I am sure the thinking is that his next 30 games have to be better than his last 30 games.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I don't think we need to move our 1st to get rid of Neal, at least not yet.

I think it would make more sense to send Neal off when we need to re-sign players like Jankowski, Andersson, and Kylington. It would make more sense to trade Neal after the 19/20 season if we really needed to trade him off.

I see it as

1st = Hayes
3rd = zucc
Dube is the price to move neal

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Incogneto

....Did you watch him the last two years without Gio? he was lost....and -16 both seasons.

...Did you see Hamilton with and without Gio? Thankfully we traded him while his value was high too.

2019 Brodie = 2018 Hamilton

...except that Hamilton made Gio worse (always had to cover for him), while Brodie has helped Gio just as much as Gio has helped Brodie. With any other partner, Gio would not be having a Norris-calibre season. Certainly Gio elevates the play and value of whoever his partner is, but in order to have the success he currently enjoys, he needs a partner with speed and skill, something the Flames otherwise lack on the right side of the D.

[theg69]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Because that's not remotely a fact. It's not even a very good opinion.

This condescending tone is really not necessary.
Just because someone does not agree with you, does not mean that their opinion is any less valid.

I’m extremely happy that Brodie has rebounded with Giordano and think that their games complement each other very well. However, you can’t just keep making excuses for how awful Brodie was when he was not playing with Giordano. Gio has been consistently good no matter who the coach is or who he is being paired with. You cannot say that is the same for Brodie, no matter how many excuses you come up with.

I also do not disagree with the opinion that if there was good value this summer, you trade Brodie, not because he is a bad player but if he has another season next year like this one, there is a real risk you lose him for nothing the year after.

I think either Hamonic or Brodie will have to go for cap reasons - but Brodie is the one more likely to be traded because his value will be higher and Hamonic is more likely to take a slight discount to stay in Western Canada near his family.

I get you really like Brodie and that is ok but I hate seeing posters calling others dense or stupid or someone who “doesn’t watch as many games” just because opinions differ.