2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think he's saying to move Brodie during the season. I think he's saying if you pay a first for a trade deadline deal, you can get a first back in the off season if you move Brodie.

Trading Brodie after this season would be equivalent to the Blackhawks trading away Brandon Saad in 2014 because Saad was a year away from free agency. Then maybe they don't win the cup in 2015.

You don't break up top pairs or top lines on top teams. If we hit a cap crunch there are a lot of names we should be looking to move before Brodie, even if the return is lesser or even negative. If we have to package a Dube with a Stone or Neal it still makes more sense than moving Brodie.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

that is a really long winded way of agreeing with me.

199/31 = 6.4

6 forwards make up the top two lines

He's between a 2nd and 3rd line average NHL player.

I've said that two times.

Thanks for your support!

Nice ignorance of the majority of the post which clearly shows Bennett is not what you are advertising him to be. Again, the data that really focuses on opportunity shows where Bennett shakes out.

"If you actually take into consideration opportunity, Bennett is much worse. Bennett is producing at a 1.70 P/60 amongst forwards, which puts him 9th on the Flames and clearly in the bottom six. He's 236th on this measure in the league. For comparables, looking at the top 10 teams, on Tampa Bennett would be 11th, on San Jose he would be 10th, on Winnipeg he would be 12th, on Nashville he would be 10th, on the Islanders he would be 10th, the Leafs he would be 9th, Vegas he would be 9th, Montreal he would be 12th, Washington he would be 11th."

On a top 10 team, Bennett's production puts him at 10-11th forward, clearly 4th line level production.

"For the rest of the league, on Pittsburgh he would be 11th, Minnesota he would be 9th, Carolina he would be 10th, Colorado he would be 8th, Vancouver he would be 9th, Anaheim he would be 10th, Arizona he would be 7th, Rangers he would be 9th, Florida he would be 8th, Detroit he would be 8th, Chicago he would be 7th, Philadelphia he would be 9th, New Jersey he would be 8th, Ottawa he would be 11th. The only teams he would manage to scrap into the top six are Columbus, where he would be 6th, Boston he would be 6th, Buffalo he would be 6th, Dallas he would be 6th, and Los Angeles he would be 6th. The only team where he sneaks about the six slot is Edmonton, where he would be 5th. Not sure how I see where he's a top six player."

The rest of the league averages out to the 8th best producer in comparison, which clearly puts him on the third line. That's only because the bottom feeders in the league bring that number up. Only on those really bad teams does Bennett climb the lineup. He could be a solid top six player on a team the quality of the Oilers, but I hope the Flames have higher aspirations than that. Bennett is what Bennett is. Considering his opportunity, that is likely inflated. Not many players produce as poorly as Bennett and continue to get opportunity. I get that he tries really hard and plays a tough game, but he is extremely ineffective at doing what you hope a player with that opportunity gets, and that is put goals on the scoreboard.

[goflamesgo18]

Trade our first plus for stone or duchene
Sign them in offseason for 7 year deal
Trade them right after for a better first plus

Simple

[activeStick]

I feel like the Flames will pick up a goalie from the Flyers for some reason.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Trading Brodie after this season would be equivalent to the Blackhawks trading away Brandon Saad in 2014 because Saad was a year away from free agency. Then maybe they don't win the cup in 2015.

You don't break up top pairs or top lines on top teams. If we hit a cap crunch there are a lot of names we should be looking to move before Brodie, even if the return is lesser or even negative. If we have to package a Dube with a Stone or Neal it still makes more sense than moving Brodie.

I agree, though I feel if it came down to Brodie vs Hamonic long term, I would have to go for Hamonic, as his skillset is harder to replace internally.

I would not say the flames HAVE to trade Brodie until Giordano is into his twilight. Those two make each other better, but Brodie does not play as well away from Gio. If keeping him around means you risk long Brodie to the expansion draft, so be it. While the Flames can only protect 3D if they opt to protect 7F, a way that they can make sure to have a good 6 skaters on D is to enter the expansion offseason with 7 NHL D. Protect strategically, and accept that you will lose one, but keeping them all gives you the best shot this year and next.

Trading Brodie sooner means trusting Andersson with top pairing minutes, then either keeping Stone around if he is fit, or trying to play Kylington on his weaker side (I would not move Valimaki over as he is the long term Gio successor IMO). It would have to be a big win that helps the team be as good/better right now and moving forward to be worth it

[ComixZone]

I enjoy that Bennett is the 6th/7th best forward on the best team in the Western Conference, but people just keep hammering the drum.

Kid is making progress after a horrible coach buried him in the line-up and mishandled his development like only an Oilers coach could. After two years of the same group of people defending Bennett, and the same group of people attacking Bennett...nothing changes.

Would have been cool to actually have something come out of the conversations, but it seems we mostly just spent 2 1/2 years yelling our opinions at each other with very few people opening their eyes enough to find a middle ground.

Bennett is 22, and is the 6th/7th best forward on the best team in the Western Conference. He fights, he hits, he works his ass off. I love ‘em. He likely won’t be the 90 point stud we once dreamed of, but he’s developing right before our eyes. This looks to be an important year for the youngster as his 200 foot game has taken big steps. Thanks to the poor start from the bottom half of the roster offensively (which he was a big part of), he may not pop 40 points but I’d bet he pops 50 points within the next 2 seasons while delivering a strong defensive game and enough jam to keep Mangiapane fed for years.

Good player. Looks to be a good teammate. It’s likely that were he on another team, he’d be consistently in the top 6 due to lack of depth on other teams, but that’s part of being a good team. The depth keeps him as that 6/7, and it looks like a good spot for him right now. He’s helping the team win, and him stepping permanently into that 6th spot next season seems inevitable as his game continues to improve and as his consistency improves.

Saying “Bennett is what Bennett is” when the kid is 22 years old seems bafflingly short sighted to me.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I feel like the Flames will pick up a goalie from the Flyers for some reason.

I hope you're wrong. Outside of the obvious Hart, who's not likely to be moved, the best of the other 1746261746 goalies the Flyers have used was...Brian Elliott.

[stemit14]

I think LA and Philly would make good trading partners... I could see Philly making a move to get Jonathan Quick. Gives Hart time to develop and Quick to become the backup in 2-3 years. Risky because of Quick’s injury history but the Flyers are always so desperate to solve their goaltending I would not be surprised to see them take the risk.


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[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

IMO the Flames should move Brodie anyway this summer to make room for Valimaki, Andersson, and Kylington be full-time NHLers going forward. Brodie's gonna want a huge raise and the Flames shouldn't pay it. That'd be a good way to recoup some assets traded in a possible Stone trade, too -- the Flames could easily get a 1st+ for Brodie.

This x1000.

Its pretty obvious that whoever plays with Gio has his game elevated. We all saw what Brodie looked like WITHOUT Gio, so trade him while his value is high. Put Hamonic with Gio next year, and trade him. Rinse, Repeat while Gio is playing at this level.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I feel like the Flames will pick up a goalie from the Flyers for some reason.

They sure have a bunch of them.

Brian Elliott?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Incogneto

This x1000.

Its pretty obvious that whoever plays with Gio has his game elevated. We all saw what Brodie looked like WITHOUT Gio, so trade him while his value is high. Put Hamonic with Gio next year, and trade him. Rinse, Repeat while Gio is playing at this level.

Agree with this whole premise 100%, except I would try Andersson with Gio and let HamHan stay together.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Incogneto

This x1000.

Its pretty obvious that whoever plays with Gio has his game elevated. We all saw what Brodie looked like WITHOUT Gio, so trade him while his value is high. Put Hamonic with Gio next year, and trade him. Rinse, Repeat while Gio is playing at this level.

Fully agree.

Use the 20-something 1st round pick and get your put you over the top piece at the deadline. Whatever they think won't 'mess' with chemistry according to Conroy.

Because you have 3 legit NHL d-men with upside pushing into the line up and Brodie is going to put up around 40 points with a top 5 plus-minus rating that you can capitalize on after your playoff run.

As much as I love Brodie, between Valimaki, Kylington, Andersson and Hanifin's development, those shoes can be filled.

[TheScorpion]

Personally, I'd also prefer not to trade Hamonic. The Flames need RHD anyway

Going forward, next season:

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki - Stone
Kylington

When Gio gets old:

Valimaki - Andersson
Hanifin - Hamonic
Kylington - new guy
new guy

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Also need to consider expansion draft issues. I think one of Brodie or Hamonic will be moved before then.

[Toonage]

If the same rules as last time apply wouldn't you want to hold onto Brodie in the event you could move him and a pick to Seattle in exchange for not taking Kylington, Andersson, etc?

[Monahammer]

What is everyone thinking our best offer for Stone could be? I'm thinking hes the most likely big fish we could hope for at this point. His playoff performance last time left a lot to be desired though!

[Roof-Daddy]

I've said it before, I don't want to lose Brodie from this roster, but after next season he's either going to be gone for nothing, or making $6 million or more against the cap heading into his 30's. We can't afford to pay both he and Hamonic.

Plus, with the season he's had he would likely bring in a solid return of futures. 1st round pick and a couple of 2nds type of deal.

Then, as some have mentioned, guys like Andersson (is a RHD) and Kylington (has played a lot of D on the right side in the past) can battle for 5v5 ice time as Gio's partner. Aside from them you also have Hamonic. In other words you should be able to replace Brodie internally, clear cap space AND bring in a substantial return of futures that could help keep this teams window open even longer.

Giordano - Andersson/Kylington
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki - Andersson/Kylington

As of right now you still have Stone kicking around as well.


In a cap world you can't keep everybody, even though you want to. It makes sense to recycle your assets whenever possible in order to achieve long term success. D just happens to be a spot the Flames are very deep right now, and as much as I like Brodie, I'd rather see the soon to be 30 year old making $6 million + dealt and replaced by a 22 or 23 year old, than to deal away the younger cheaper guy who doesn't have as much value.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Nice ignorance of the majority of the post which clearly shows Bennett is not what you are advertising him to be. Again, the data that really focuses on opportunity shows where Bennett shakes out.

"If you actually take into consideration opportunity, Bennett is much worse. Bennett is producing at a 1.70 P/60 amongst forwards, which puts him 9th on the Flames and clearly in the bottom six. He's 236th on this measure in the league. For comparables, looking at the top 10 teams, on Tampa Bennett would be 11th, on San Jose he would be 10th, on Winnipeg he would be 12th, on Nashville he would be 10th, on the Islanders he would be 10th, the Leafs he would be 9th, Vegas he would be 9th, Montreal he would be 12th, Washington he would be 11th."

On a top 10 team, Bennett's production puts him at 10-11th forward, clearly 4th line level production.

"For the rest of the league, on Pittsburgh he would be 11th, Minnesota he would be 9th, Carolina he would be 10th, Colorado he would be 8th, Vancouver he would be 9th, Anaheim he would be 10th, Arizona he would be 7th, Rangers he would be 9th, Florida he would be 8th, Detroit he would be 8th, Chicago he would be 7th, Philadelphia he would be 9th, New Jersey he would be 8th, Ottawa he would be 11th. The only teams he would manage to scrap into the top six are Columbus, where he would be 6th, Boston he would be 6th, Buffalo he would be 6th, Dallas he would be 6th, and Los Angeles he would be 6th. The only team where he sneaks about the six slot is Edmonton, where he would be 5th. Not sure how I see where he's a top six player."

The rest of the league averages out to the 8th best producer in comparison, which clearly puts him on the third line. That's only because the bottom feeders in the league bring that number up. Only on those really bad teams does Bennett climb the lineup. He could be a solid top six player on a team the quality of the Oilers, but I hope the Flames have higher aspirations than that. Bennett is what Bennett is. Considering his opportunity, that is likely inflated. Not many players produce as poorly as Bennett and continue to get opportunity. I get that he tries really hard and plays a tough game, but he is extremely ineffective at doing what you hope a player with that opportunity gets, and that is put goals on the scoreboard.

It's not ignorance.

It's simple math. I'm not going through the whole league trying to see who's getting the most and least opportunity. I'm cutting off all forwards by minutes played at 200, which gives you roughly 12-13 forwards per team.

Using your number he sits 199th out of the 400+ forwards for production per minute (which is opportunity) and that boils down to 6.4 forwards per team, or the 2nd line / 3rd line bubble that he I've stated now four times.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

What is everyone thinking our best offer for Stone could be? I'm thinking hes the most likely big fish we could hope for at this point. His playoff performance last time left a lot to be desired though!

I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment
I still think he re-signs in Ottawa and if not, the offers for him are going to be nutso.
So i think the chance of the Flames landing him are VERY tiny.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Trading Brodie after this season would be equivalent to the Blackhawks trading away Brandon Saad in 2014 because Saad was a year away from free agency. Then maybe they don't win the cup in 2015.

You don't break up top pairs or top lines on top teams. If we hit a cap crunch there are a lot of names we should be looking to move before Brodie, even if the return is lesser or even negative. If we have to package a Dube with a Stone or Neal it still makes more sense than moving Brodie.

I'm not saying to do it - I was just saying what someone else said.