Edmonton is No Good VI: Chia•den•freu•de

[topfiverecords]

Let's not forget RNH is only under contract for 2 years after this one.

His trade value in the 20-21 season is going to drop, especially closer to the deadline, as he'll be a pending UFA.

They have to then trade him at some point next season or in the 2020 summer.

Only one more year of Nuge in E=NG.

You just know Nuge looks at his party photos with Hallsy & Ebs and wonders "why not me?".

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by keenan87

As much as Tampa has turned it around.. they have sucked for many years.

Its really hard to screw up 1-3 overall picks (which they did in Drouin but then lucked out). I know what you are trying to say and they have drafted well, but it just irks me because lots of people think they have done it without completely tanking.

Easy to tank after a Stanley Cup it was in.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by keenan87

As much as Tampa has turned it around.. they have sucked for many years.

No, they have not. The Lightning were still a playoff team for two more seasons after they won the Cup, and after missing a year for the Lockout. They made a surprise appearance in the playoffs in 2011, and have been a fixture in the post-season since 2014 (the 2016–17 season derailed TB with a huge number of significant injuries). The Lightning sucked for three years. That's it.

Its really hard to screw up 1-3 overall picks (which they did in Drouin but then lucked out). I know what you are trying to say and they have drafted well, but it just irks me because lots of people think they have done it without completely tanking.

The big difference between TB and almost every other team that has rebuilt is that they did it fast and they did it smart. Sure, they "tanked" in the same sense that every team goes through cycles of winning and losing, but they deserve massive credit for building an incredible team around their high-end draft picks. As far as I am concerned they are the model franchise—every team should aspire to build the way that Yzerman built the Lightning. Now, here's hoping it only ever gets them close to a Cup without winning.

[dash_pinched]

Apparently, Spector has been busy deleting all his old tweets that contain the word 'Chiarelli' lol

[FlamesFanTrev]

All these trade proposals for draft picks.... How is that going to help the Oilers? They would have to know the first thing about drafting, which they don't. The only way to restock the cupboards is to completely overhaul the scouting department (which they won't), and make good on some of those picks. THEN, they have to develop those picks properly (which they won't) because that is going to be the only way that they increase the value of their assets in the org.They won't develop them properly because they will be rushing them to the show in order to move up the standings because of fans and luxury boxes. So they are going to move the young guys up into a team that has a toxic culture, onto a roster full of bitter players. Like an infection, the culture will begin to infect the young guys, and they are going wake up to the same problem, like Bill Murray in ground hog day.

They can't trade for experienced players, because guys on expiring deals will not stay there. They need to get assets that have long contracts under team control, but in order to do that, they need to have pieces that someone wants more... Which they don't posses besides 2-3 "untouchable" players.

Finally, the last choice is adding by free agency. They are all but insured to get the bottom of the barrel, because nobody worth having is coming to Edmonton unless they are willing to overpay, which they can't because they are capped out.

The only way for them to improve is through the draft, selecting good players, developing them properly, and keeping them under team control without emptying the bank. Their biggest need is on D, so they are likely 3-4 years from getting a properly developed defenseman through to the NHL. That's not when their window opens, that's when their first asset would take the Ice. And if your only getting 1 prospect each year, you will never develop a core group that are coming up together.

Yes, it's time for the scorched earth policy, but its not the players... Its the scouting department. And will Conner stay for 4-5 years until the team can start to fill in around him? If they keep doing half measures to make Conner comfortable, they will never contend while he is still on his current contract.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanTrev

Yes, it's time for the scorched earth policy, but its not the players... Its the scouting department. And will Conner stay for 4-5 years until the team can start to fill in around him? If they keep doing half measures to make Conner comfortable, they will never contend while he is still on his current contract.

There is no way Connor stays for this... if I was advising Connor, or his agent, I would request a meeting with the management, and if I liked what I heard, I’d advice Connor to give them an ultimatum to proceed with their plan and hold off on a request to be traded until the Summer 2020 where we’d evaluate their progress. If I didn’t like their plan, I’d advise him to request a trade this summer (2019).

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

There is no way Connor stays for this... if I was advising Connor, or his agent, I would request a meeting with the management, and if I liked what I heard, I’d advice Connor to give them an ultimatum to proceed with their plan and hold off on a request to be traded until the Summer 2020 where we’d evaluate their progress. If I didn’t like their plan, I’d advise him to request a trade this summer (2019).

So that's part of the problem for sure, but it can't change the route the Oilers have to navigate in order to be successful. If Connor doesn't want to be there, trade him. hockey is still a team game, and a superstar makes it easier, but you still have to fill out the whole roster. But there is no room for half measures, and there is no way for them to improve in my opinion besides the draft. Because of the dire straights that they find themselves in, they are unable to attract players worth having that want to be there. They essentially need pieces that can't leave. There is no short term solution. They need to draft and develop while they are waiting on un-movable contracts to expire. Every trade they are able to make will leave them with less value then before they started, because the trade route would be from a position of weakness, unless they are willing to move out the untouchable high end players. And they can't take on salary in order to increase the value of the assets they recieved back because they are against the cap. Every trade below a blockbuster is literally a losing proposition.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by direwolf

No, he really isn't. Crosby, Gio, Getzlaf, Toews, Iginla...those are leaders. McDavid has a long way to go before he's even considered in the same category as guys like that.

He's an extremely gifted hockey player, no question. But he also wilts under pressure and gets easily rattled when things aren't going his team's way, or when opposing players get in his grill.

He's also very lazy defensively, and I noticed he tends to give up on plays easily. That's not leader material. The kid still has a lot to learn about being a captain in this league.

My wife, who was a teacher of young kids for many, many years, looked at the video of McDavid after the last game, and felt quite sorry for him because he's had so much heaped on him: money, hopes, glorious praise etc....and has no leadership to help him grow into being the guy he actually might be able to be, and no role model to assist or follow.



He looks drained and tired, and likely fed up..who wouldn't be? As much as I dislike the Oilers, I can feel some empathy for the person. Yes - he grabbed the cash (no doubt propelled by an agent (Orr?) who had %%% = $$$ in his sights more than anything else) and signed the long-term contract. But it has to be an unenviable position he's in - massive expectations and zero support.



He'll be quite comfy for the rest of his life, but E=NG is hung around his neck like a millstone.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanTrev

So that's part of the problem for sure, but it can't change the route the Oilers have to navigate in order to be successful. If Connor doesn't want to be there, trade him. hockey is still a team game, and a superstar makes it easier, but you still have to fill out the whole roster. But there is no room for half measures, and there is no way for them to improve in my opinion besides the draft. Because of the dire straights that they find themselves in, they are unable to attract players worth having that want to be there. They essentially need pieces that can't leave. There is no short term solution. They need to draft and develop while they are waiting on un-movable contracts to expire. Every trade they are able to make will leave them with less value then before they started, because the trade route would be from a position of weakness, unless they are willing to move out the untouchable high end players. And they can't take on salary in order to increase the value of the assets they recieved back because they are against the cap. Every trade below a blockbuster is literally a losing proposition.

I totally agree with you.... one saving grace may be a compliant buyout that is granted with a new NHL/NHLPA contract - that could help speed things up a bit - but it’s not guaranteed to occur.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

My wife, who was a teacher of young kids for many, many years, looked at the video of McDavid after the last game, and felt quite sorry for him because he's had so much heaped on him: money, hopes, glorious praise etc....and has no leadership to help him grow into being the guy he actually might be able to be, and no role model to assist or follow.



He looks drained and tired, and likely fed up..who wouldn't be? As much as I dislike the Oilers, I can feel some empathy for the person. Yes - he grabbed the cash (no doubt propelled by an agent (Orr?) who had %%% = $$$ in his sights more than anything else) and signed the long-term contract. But it has to be an unenviable position he's in - massive expectations and zero support.



He'll be quite comfy for the rest of his life, but E=NG is hung around his neck like a millstone.

I don't think Orr is like that. He had an agent steal/take a bunch of his money from his playing days... I forget the particulars though. Orr would have gotten the same amount or more over the life of McDavids career by telling him to sign till UFA and tell people where the line-up starts. If someone offers you 100 mil for 8 tough years of your life, you take it all day, every day. I can't speak from personal experience or anything, but based on what I have heard or read about Orr, he is one of the good guys out there.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by Coach

Tampa has had a pretty good history for a relatively young expansion franchise.

From 92-02 they had a pretty rough go (as expected for most expansion teams), although they did make the playoffs in their 4th season.

02-07 they had some good years including of course OUR Stanley Cup . But some early exits as well.

They then had a few off years where they began drafting what is now their high-end talent. A crazy finals appearance followed by a fall back down to earth but then steady rise back to respectability and have been a team to beat for the past 5 or 6 years.

Really when you look at cycles of success, Calgary, Edmonton and Tampa should all be around the same timeframe. Calgary has had a similar last 20 years as Tampa and hopefully can see some sustained success now like they have. Edmonton has been a disaster that entire time.

Fixed.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

I totally agree with you.... one saving grace may be a compliant buyout that is granted with a new NHL/NHLPA contract - that could help speed things up a bit - but it’s not guaranteed to occur.

It's also at least 2 years out. There is also some rumors out there that there might not be a work stoppage this time, in which case, no buyout.

Again, there just is no short term solution. Nobody is lining up to help the Oilers out from the hole they dug.

[Reggie Dunlop]

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No, they have not. The Lightning were still a playoff team for two more seasons after they won the Cup, and after missing a year for the Lockout.

I think maybe they are talking about 1992-2002.

The Lightning were a PO team after the finals but they lost in round one each year. And then they were out, sooner than Calgary was. 07-11 they were at or near the bottom of the league, so they scored Stamkos and Hedman - nice.

[Movechkin]

Jim Matheson starting to pump the Keith Gretzky as a smart hockey man tires. As per Matty, Keith has paid his dues. Now to wait for the interim tag to be removed.

[lazypucker]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Is this a real twit?

[sun]

Totally.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Is this a real twit?

yup. that's how bad it is there

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

...As much as I dislike the Oilers, I can feel some empathy for the person. Yes - he grabbed the cash (no doubt propelled by an agent (Orr?) who had %%% = $$$ in his sights more than anything else) and signed the long-term contract. But it has to be an unenviable position he's in - massive expectations and zero support...

I agree with everything you have written in your post, but have said on a few occasions before that I think McDavid signed his extension with the sincere belief that the Oilers had been launched to the level of a perennial Stanley Cup contender. It is pretty well established that being an excellent hockey player does not imbue one with the requisite skill and acumen to assess hockey talent and to build a team. Most hockey players do not end up as successful scouts, coaches and managers.

Why would McDavid be any different? He believed in the Oilers, and he is paying for it now. There are worse things that could befall a person, but it sure looks like he has become miserable in his circumstances.

It sucks for him,

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

My wife, who was a teacher of young kids for many, many years, looked at the video of McDavid after the last game, and felt quite sorry for him because he's had so much heaped on him: money, hopes, glorious praise etc....and has no leadership to help him grow into being the guy he actually might be able to be, and no role model to assist or follow.



He looks drained and tired, and likely fed up..who wouldn't be? As much as I dislike the Oilers, I can feel some empathy for the person. Yes - he grabbed the cash (no doubt propelled by an agent (Orr?) who had %%% = $$$ in his sights more than anything else) and signed the long-term contract. But it has to be an unenviable position he's in - massive expectations and zero support.



He'll be quite comfy for the rest of his life, but E=NG is hung around his neck like a millstone.

Absolutely bang on... Edmonton is so worried about being first, being first at something, ANYTHING, they never stop to think if they are right - if it's the right move. The youngest captain in league history - but should he have been? He was not the leader when he was named, he might be becoming it now (I personally don't think so), but he wasn't then for sure.