Edmonton is No Good VI: Chia•den•freu•de

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

As much as we would love to see it, and it probably makes sense hockey wise, it doesn't make sense business wise to trade McDavid for Katz, and that's why I don't see him ever allowing that trade. I know someone who works for his company, and they all know Katz thinks the kid is worth about a billion dollars to him. So unless he goes full meltdown, I don't see Oilers ever trading McDavid until his final year of his contract.

McDavid may not give them a choice. He is good enough of a player that he can force the tram’s hand to move him once he has had enough.



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[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Even if they were to find two young core pieces there is a strong losing culture.

I don't know how much I agree with that - the problem isn't the culture of the club, it is the fact that they have absolutely no quality depth and when they try to acquire depth they have to dip into the UFA market - which is notoriously poor return on investment as you are battling against 30 other teams for a players services. Their scouting/drafting/development has been awful and that has kept them spinning their wheels.

I think for the longest time they were trying to get players to fit into this mythical "Oilers hockey" mold and that era has long since passed.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

I actually want them to finish dead last, have the highest odds of winning the lottery and then drop the max of 4 spots down and watch all the Oil fans scream conspiracy.

I think if they do hit rock bottom again the league is going to have to have a hard look at problem. Just imagine if Edmonton won the draft again, that is a scenario that is not beneficial to the league. Pretty sure the team has quit on the season and there are very few options left at this point.

[Vinny01]

I don’t know if Katz could sell the fanbase on moving McDavid unless he said he was selling the team and taking the Oldboys club with him. The hatred that fanbase has for Katz, Nicholson, Chiarelli, Lowe, MacT is tremendous

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Locke

Even something like that is just pissing into the wind.

That trade shuffled the roster around, but it was some finishing touches and roster movement and contract control and flexibility.

I mean, whats the Oilers laundry-list of needs even at these days?

- Starting Goaltender
- Backup Goaltender?

- Top 4 Defenceman (x2? More?)

- Top 6 Wingers (x3?)

- Bottom 6 players (x6?)

And that doesnt even include their needs to ditch players like Russel, Lucic, Sekera, etc.

I cant even imagine what it would take to re-work that lineup.

Without even slight exaggeration I can say that any expansion team has a significant advantage over the Edmonton Oilers because they dont have as much crap to get rid of before they can even start building.

Vegas proved it and Seattle will likely hammer that painful lesson home.

To illustrate the mess, let's take a quick look at the D. These are the players under contract for next year:

Klefbom, Larsson, Sekera, Russell, Nurse, Manning, Benning, Bouchard - $26.108M

By comparison, the Flames have:

Giordano, Brodie, Hanifin, Hamonic, Andersson, Valimaki, Stone, Kylington - $26.086M

Yes, the Oilers have 8 guys signed for next year (9 including Jones, but I doubt we ever see him again), that cost (slightly) more than the Flames' 8. There simply is no room to bring in a couple top 4 guys - how could they possibly do it? Who can they move from that group? Only Klefbom, Larsson and Nurse (none of whom they are willing to move). So this is it for next year. So let's take a look:

Klefbom - Larsson <<<<< Giordano - Brodie
Nurse - Sekera <<<<< Hanifin - Hamonic
Russell - Bouchard << Valimaki - Andersson
Manning - Benning <<<<< Kylington - Stone

(I moved Nurse up and Russell down in order to have a stable defensive guy with Bouchard)

This is what they are looking at for next year, with more money tied up on D than the Flames have, and literally NO WAY to improve things, unless they trade of of their good young players, or buy out Sekera.

But if you buy out Sekera, that will cost $1.5M for 4 years. That leaves you $4M to replace him. So what can the Oilers get on the open market for $4M? Russell cost $4M. Stone cost $3.5M. That's what you're looking at. Is that an improvement over Sekera? Maybe a marginal improvement, if they can find a decent player who is willing to come to Edmonton. But it isn't going to move the needle on this D core.

Their D is going to be just as bad next year as it is this year.

That's year 5 of McSavior down the drain.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by skcli

The Oil also hired GG as the assistant coach....GG was very good in Calgary ruining young players. Enjoy this run Coilers !

He was also very good at making the Oilers look like world beaters. I’m sure this was part of that hiring decision.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I don't know how much I agree with that - the problem isn't the culture of the club, it is the fact that they have absolutely no quality depth and when they try to acquire depth they have to dip into the UFA market - which is notoriously poor return on investment as you are battling against 30 other teams for a players services. Their scouting/drafting/development has been awful and that has kept them spinning their wheels.

I think for the longest time they were trying to get players to fit into this mythical "Oilers hockey" mold and that era has long since passed.

While I agree with you there is very little talent to go around, I think there is a strong losing culture and mentality. Some players are so used to losing year after year that they easily revert right back to that when things are not sustainable. To top it off there is little or no opportunity for advancement or incentive for players (who have little talent) when most of the money is tied up in too few players. Either way we can agree it is a MESS!

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Honest answer is they need their own version of the Hamilton, Ferland, Fox for Lindholm, Hanifin trade.

Something around Draisaitl + for 2 cheaper young core pieces.

That is to start and not any easy trade to make. Lots of risk involved.

But if they can get similar results as Treliving did, then maybe they can avoid rebuild number whatever they are on.

But there is so much work to do.

Carlina needs more high end talent. If I was Edmonton I'd do something like Draisaitl+Klefbom for Teravainen, Slavin and a couple young b+ prospects.

You don't lose too much offense with Draisaitl to Teuvo as Draisaitl is effectively a winger now anyways. Slavin is a wash with Klefbom but then you get some potential firepower fending on the other young assets coming back.


At the end of the day though, to improve your team you need to deal from an area of strength to an area of weakness to balance your team better. The main areas are centers, wingers, defense, goaltending, prospects and picks.

How do you shore up wingers, defense, goaltending when your only surplus is centers? Their prospects are average at best, no excess picks and if they remove a real center (Mcdavid or Nuge) they now would have a hole at center. Therefore, the only real interchangeable piece is going to be Draisaitl who is very valuable. While he's valuable, you're not going to plug a hole at D and on the wings, so playoffs aren't really possible without nothing the future which already looks bleak.

The ONLY answer is rebuild or at least retool

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

He was also very good at making the Oilers look like world beaters. I’m sure this was part of that hiring decision.

If only they could find a way to sneak him onto the oppositions coaching staff every game.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Carlina needs more high end talent. If I was Edmonton I'd do something like Draisaitl+Klefbom for Teravainen, Slavin and a couple young b+ prospects.

You don't lose too much offense with Draisaitl to Teuvo as Draisaitl is effectively a winger now anyways. Slavin is a wash with Klefbom but then you get some potential firepower fending on the other young assets coming back.


At the end of the day though, to improve your team you need to deal from an area of strength to an area of weakness to balance your team better. The main areas are centers, wingers, defense, goaltending, prospects and picks.

How do you shore up wingers, defense, goaltending when your only surplus is centers? Their prospects are average at best, no excess picks and if they remove a real center (Mcdavid or Nuge) they now would have a hole at center. Therefore, the only real interchangeable piece is going to be Draisaitl who is very valuable. While he's valuable, you're not going to plug a hole at D and on the wings, so playoffs aren't really possible without nothing the future which already looks bleak.

The ONLY answer is rebuild or at least retool

I agree. Draisaitl is really the most obvious player to move in hopes of recouping some value as the first step in another rebuild/retool, but I think that as good of a player as he is, the $8.5 m x 6 price-tag that he carries past this season will make a deal considerably more difficult to consummate, and like would have the Oilers taking back some salary that they do not want. It's not just that the Oilers are short on roster talent and prospects; they are also woefully short on cap-space.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Carlina needs more high end talent. If I was Edmonton I'd do something like Draisaitl+Klefbom for Teravainen, Slavin and a couple young b+ prospects.

You don't lose too much offense with Draisaitl to Teuvo as Draisaitl is effectively a winger now anyways. Slavin is a wash with Klefbom but then you get some potential firepower fending on the other young assets coming back.


At the end of the day though, to improve your team you need to deal from an area of strength to an area of weakness to balance your team better. The main areas are centers, wingers, defense, goaltending, prospects and picks.

How do you shore up wingers, defense, goaltending when your only surplus is centers? Their prospects are average at best, no excess picks and if they remove a real center (Mcdavid or Nuge) they now would have a hole at center. Therefore, the only real interchangeable piece is going to be Draisaitl who is very valuable. While he's valuable, you're not going to plug a hole at D and on the wings, so playoffs aren't really possible without nothing the future which already looks bleak.

The ONLY answer is rebuild or at least retool

But Slavic is actually a good defenseman. Maybe the Canes can send them Hamilton instead, he’s your prototypical oiler defenseman.

[Scorch]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

If you would like a refresher on their level of arrogance...

Read through the reddit r/hockey thread from 2 months ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comm...ific_with_the/

You'll find gems such as:






And the craziest of all:

I love the fact that arrogant Oiler fans have pissed off other fan bases as well

So now, it’s not just Flames Fans laughing at them, every fan bases is too

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I agree. Draisaitl is really the most obvious player to move in hopes of recouping some value as the first step in another rebuild/retool, but I think that as good of a player as he is, the $8.5 m x 6 price-tag that he carries past this season will make a deal considerably more difficult to consummate, and like would have the Oilers taking back some salary that they do not want. It's not just that the Oilers are short on roster talent and prospects; they are also woefully short on cap-space.

One giant, huge, tremendous caveat:

Draisaitl is only worth that money in Edmonton. In the last 3 years:

Edmonton scores 3.76 Goals per 60 minutes 5v5 with both guys on the ice, but only 2.45 with just the Deutsche Dangler (and goals against goes way up). On the powerplay, the Oilers score 8.47 goals per 60 with both guys. With Draisaitl only, they score 1.28 goals per 60.

He has great chemistry with Mcdavid, but Mcdavid doesn't actually slow down without Draisaitl so it's really a one way benefit.

Will whatever team trades with Chiarelli notice this?

[Roof-Daddy]

No mercy or remorse for oiler fans, EVER.

All it takes is a pathetic little hot streak every once in a while to remind me of that.

[Diesel]

Players come and go, seasons pass. Nothing stays the same. Except player agents, the groups the runs the NHL. They are ex players, lawyers, ex managers. They live forever and remember everything. They remember Christmas Day practices, the extortion of Comrie, Souray being spanked in public, the Hendricks trade, captains being run out of town, the list is endless. As long as Lowe is with the team in ANY capacity the Oilers are blackballed. And Stauffer knows it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

One giant, huge, tremendous caveat:

Draisaitl is only worth that money in Edmonton. In the last 3 years:

Edmonton scores 3.76 Goals per 60 minutes 5v5 with both guys on the ice, but only 2.45 with just the Deutsche Dangler (and goals against goes way up). On the powerplay, the Oilers score 8.47 goals per 60 with both guys. With Draisaitl only, they score 1.28 goals per 60.

He has great chemistry with Mcdavid, but Mcdavid doesn't actually slow down without Draisaitl so it's really a one way benefit.

Will whatever team trades with Chiarelli notice this?

Of course they will. We all see it, with only a casual glance in the direction of the tire fire, and with a few minutes spent on a stats page.

If you're considering trading for a player with an $8.5M cap hit for the next 6 years (i.e. he would likely become the largest contract on your roster), you are not only going to have several staff members watch his every move for the next days/weeks, you are going to watch and scrutinize every inch of film available, you are going to talk to everyone you know that might have some insight, including former coaches and former team-mates, you are going to scrutinize how your team would utilize him, how you could build around him, etc. etc. etc..

There are no secrets in the NHL, when it comes to high profile, and high cost, players.

To those that would counter with 'Elias Lindholm', I would argue that he was traded because the owner was looking at costs. Moving players out because of dollars is one thing. But bringing in a player that is going to cost you $51M over the next 6 years, is a very, very different thing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Diesel

Players come and go, seasons pass. Nothing stays the same. Except player agents, the groups the runs the NHL. They are ex players, lawyers, ex managers. They live forever and remember everything. They remember Christmas Day practices, the extortion of Comrie, Souray being spanked in public, the Hendricks trade, captains being run out of town, the list is endless. As long as Lowe is with the team in ANY capacity the Oilers are blackballed. And Stauffer knows it.

Yup, from Souray on, there are events every single season where they embarrass players, and run players out of town. The culture has been toxic for over a decade. And management has remained arrogant throughout.

Agents and players don't forget.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yup, from Souray on, there are events every single season where they embarrass players, and run players out of town. The culture has been toxic for over a decade. And management has remained arrogant been promoted throughout.



Agents and players don't forget.

Ftfy

[Diesel]

Young players just want to play, it’s the job of the 50 year old agent to protect the player. Anyone playing for Edmonton should fire their agent. (Except Lucic).

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

While I agree with you there is very little talent to go around, I think there is a strong losing culture and mentality. Some players are so used to losing year after year that they easily revert right back to that when things are not sustainable. To top it off there is little or no opportunity for advancement or incentive for players (who have little talent) when most of the money is tied up in too few players. Either way we can agree it is a MESS!

But their roster is nearly completely different than 4 years ago, with Nugent-Hopkins and Klefbom being the only players remaining who played the entire season with the Oilers.

The problem is they have nothing in the 22-28 year old players as their drafting from 2007-2016 was abysmal. The last good NHL player they had come out of the draft past the first round was Petry in 2007. Before that, Brodziak in 2003.

That is 15 years of poor drafting, the only team I can think of with a similar drafting record is the Canucks, but at least they have made some great selections in the first round to minimize the pain.