[News] Jan 3 UPD: Frolik's agent complains about his ice time

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Karl

Nothing.

Not trying to be snarky, but in that case did the conversation just evolve to what makes a better PP unit, or are we still thinking the use of Ryan on the 2nd PP instead of Rasmus validates some of Frolik's complaints?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

This is even more of feather under his cap. If Frolik is the only one producing with the 2nd line and Bennett, Neal, Czarnik and etc can't, then what's the rush in trading him? Who else is going to play with Backlund and Tkachuk?

I'd trade Neal, Stone or Ryan before I'd ship Frolik out of town. What his agent did was obviously unprofessional. But that's what agents get paid to do, support their client. Frolik is ultimately a character guy and I don't think the rest of his teammates would hold it against him which is the most important thing about a situation like that.

Peter's might not like Frolik. But at some point, he's going to have to abandon his get Neal going agenda because if he's not scoring, which he isn't, then he's a liability. Frolik should then pick up those extra minutes and I'm sure he'll make the most of them like he has been doing this season.

Lol he is not producing that well at all let’s not pretend he is having a great year or impact with the 3M line. He has scored his points in bunches coming off scratches then goes invisible again. I am not sure why but he doesn’t appear to be on the PK either so what value does he bring.

No kidding you would trade clearly worse contracts rather than Frolik. Neal has been a disaster signing so far, Ryan was always a bad signing in my eyes as well, and Stone has lost his spot thanks to Andersson. I highly doubt Neal would be traceable for anything other than a similarly bad contract.

Frolik is pouting and got his agent to make it public. Frolik is not a core piece of the team. If someone wants to take that cap hit for a 3rd round pick or better then do it. Based on the season so far I am not convinced Frolik won’t be a buyout candidate this summer. He was great 2 years ago and meh since.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Not trying to be snarky, but in that case did the conversation just evolve to what makes a better PP unit, or are we still thinking the use of Ryan on the 2nd PP instead of Rasmus validates some of Frolik's complaints?

I'm just talking about what I think would make a better PP2, regardless of if it does or doesn't involve Frolik.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Thing is, we were just fine without Frolik while he was out for how many games? he's just not as essential to team success as he has been over the past two seasons. Does that mean he sucks? No. just that there really is limited space for him and I think he knows it. Hence the Agent doing his stage show for his player.

Which is why at this stage he (Walsh) should shut the eff up.
Frolik is back in the lineup and generally playing well.
But acquiring a guy who is going to be a pain in the arse if he doesn't get the ice-time he wants is going to be a check against him.
If indeed they want a change, the best way to get that stage is to play well with the minutes he's getting. Establishing Frolik as a potential disruption isn't going to help his cause.
The first tweet perhaps had the intended outcome. The second tweet could do them more harm than good.

[flamesfever]

nm

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

If Frolik doesn't want to be here, that's fine with me. He's a 3rd line player on every NHL team. The quicker he realizes it the better off he'll be.

He'd be 1st line RW on Edmonton

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

He'd be 1st line RW on Edmonton

Frolik for Talbot?

Smith and Frolik for Spooner, Talbot and a 2nd?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Lol he is not producing that well at all let’s not pretend he is having a great year or impact with the 3M line. He has scored his points in bunches coming off scratches then goes invisible again. I am not sure why but he doesn’t appear to be on the PK either so what value does he bring.

No kidding you would trade clearly worse contracts rather than Frolik. Neal has been a disaster signing so far, Ryan was always a bad signing in my eyes as well, and Stone has lost his spot thanks to Andersson. I highly doubt Neal would be traceable for anything other than a similarly bad contract.

Frolik is pouting and got his agent to make it public. Frolik is not a core piece of the team. If someone wants to take that cap hit for a 3rd round pick or better then do it. Based on the season so far I am not convinced Frolik won’t be a buyout candidate this summer. He was great 2 years ago and meh since.

I'm not going to keep attempting to explain or justify his production levels. For the amount of games he's played and the low amount of minutes he plays, his production is as good as it can be for his role. It' the rest of bottom 6 that need to be pick it up in comparison which is something I don't think you're taking into account.

Frolik may not be a core piece going forward, but he's still a serviceable player who can help this team. This is a guy who doesn't have a lot of weaknesses and it would be foolish to remove him from the lineup when this team is poised to go on a run. He's versatile and can line up anywhere. Always plays the game the right way, never cheats for offense and gives an honest effort every game he plays. This is a guy who could play on my team any day.

I can almost guarantee that he won't be bought out either. A player like Frolik at one year left has value to a lot of teams. Heck, he's the only player on the team who currently has a Stanley Cup ring on his finger. So at the very least, he knows what it takes and how hard it is to win it all.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I'm not going to keep attempting to explain or justify his production levels. For the amount of games he's played and the low amount of minutes he plays, his production is as good as it can be for his role. It' the rest of bottom 6 that need to be pick it up in comparison which is something I don't think you're taking into account.

Frolik may not be a core piece going forward, but he's still a serviceable player who can help this team. This is a guy who doesn't have a lot of weaknesses and it would be foolish to remove him from the lineup when this team is poised to go on a run. He's versatile and can line up anywhere. Always plays the game the right way, never cheats for offense and gives an honest effort every game he plays. This is a guy who could play on my team any day.

I can almost guarantee that he won't be bought out either. A player like Frolik at one year left has value to a lot of teams. Heck, he's the only player on the team who currently has a Stanley Cup ring on his finger. So at the very least, he knows what it takes and how hard it is to win it all.

I agree with much of what you are saying. Some of the things going against him is he is "relatively" expensive for what he brings, and while I agree he's versatile in that he can contribute on the wing in a number of fashions, he also lacks the positional versatility SOME of the other players in our bottom 6.

But most of what you say is completely accurate, which is why it sucks he wants out. It's too bad he's handling it this way, or isn't willing to give it more time to see how things go, but Flames are a deeper and better team with him in our line up. But he's clearly having a tough time accepting that with some of the new additions and some of the growth of our young players, he'd been pushed down the line up, and has resulted in nit picking whether a couple of players who are also not top 5 forwards on this team are getting slightly more opportunities than him.

It sucks, but he clearly wants out and isn't willing even be slightly compromised on what he feels is given right to playing time, because he's not really being that hard done by.

[Husky]

Most of frolik goals are empty net goals. The guy isnt producing.

[Flash Walken]

Ah, the ol' Sam Bennett scoring chances stat.

A logo burner from outside the faceoff dots or trying to jam a puck in under the pads.

Why are we still entertaining the idea Bennett's high danger scoring chances for are indicative if anything at all?

The GRIT index is more relevant to Bennett than hdscp.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Guy has 9 goals in 25 games playing 12 minutes a game. For a goal starved bottom 6, I'd trade others before I'd trade Frolik at this point.

Originally Posted by Husky

Most of frolik goals are empty net goals. The guy isnt producing.

To combat the vagueness of information out there, allow me to repost something I wrote a few days ago about Frolik's scoring this season.

Originally Posted by Zoller

I'd be interested to review every Frolik goal this year. I seem to recall a lot of open nets and easy tap ins.

Goal 1 vs. Vancouver



Pretty standard empty-netter when the game was essentially sealed. Still, a good effort to block the puck at the blueline and win the ensuing race for the puck.

Goal 2 vs. Boston



Frolik is the beneficiary of a nice passing play by Tkachuk and Backlund. Gets himself into good position and buries it off the Backlund pass. No chance for Rask.

Goal 3 vs. Boston



Frolik begins the play by cutting off the angle for Marchand's pass along the boards, allowing Backlund to pick up the puck and find him wide-open on the far side of the net. On his weak side, Frolik had to lift up the puck while moving backwards -- a nice goal, but again, Rask had little chance.

Goal 4 vs. Montreal



Tkachuk fires a one-timer that deflects off Frolik's skate and in. Welp, a goal is a goal, I guess?

Goal 5 vs. Toronto



Another empty-netter, this one off an awful giveaway by Morgan Rielly. Sealed a 3-1 win, but Frolik didn't have to do much.

Goal 6 vs. Colorado



This is a legitimately nice goal. Frolik breaks in on the rush with Tkachuk, takes a pass, and fires a hard wrister along the ice past Varlamov. This one stood as the game-winner, too.

Goal 7 vs. Chicago



I mean, there's something to be said for getting the puck in front. Frolik does that here, and had it not gone off Crawford's stick, it might've gone straight to a waiting Bennett. But as it is, it's defintely a really lucky one, shades of Brodie's game-winner against Boston in 2015. This one was also a game-winner.

So, to summarize:

Empty-netters: 2 (Vancouver, Toronto)
Bounces: 2 (Montreal, Chicago)
No chance for the goalie: 1 (Boston 1 -- this could be 2, depending on how you see his second goal against Rask)
Legitimately nice goals: 2 (Boston 2, Colorado)

--

Since I wrote this post, he's added two more goals. One was an empty-netter against Detroit, while the other was a nice second-effort tally against Boston. With those considered, I'd update the tally as such:

Empty-netters: 3
Bounces/deflections: 2
Wide-open nets, but still against a goalie: 1
Legit nice goals: 3

So "most of his goals" haven't been empty-netters, but he hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire. Even still, he's on pace for 24 goals this season.

[SuperMatt18]

And the thing with Frolik is it's not like he's being singled out.

This is the average EV TOI of the 13 forwards that have played a regular shift this season.

Gaudreau: 16:50
Monahan: 16:09
Lindholm: 14:53
Backlund: 14:39
Tkachuk: 14:19
Neal: 13:05
Bennett: 12:02
Frolik: 10:57
Jankowski: 10:08
Ryan: 9:49
Czarnik: 9:27
Dube: 9:05
Hathaway: 8:21

He sits 8th. It's about 3 minutes less per game than him from last year but that should be expected with the additions of Neal, and Lindholm at RW as well.

The only real argument I think you could make is that Neal, Frolik, and Bennett should probably all play around 12 minutes - or the equivalent of moving 1 shift from Neal to Frolik per game. So here Frolik and his agent are getting worked up about 1 shift.

The other area where Frolik probably feels slighted is on the PK.

Last year he play around 2 minutes per game short handed. 3rd on the team behind Backlund and Brouwer.

This year he sits 6th on the roster at 1:02.

Lindholm: 2:09
Backlund: 1:55
Ryan: 1:48
Jankowski: 1:36
Hathaway: 1:28
Frolik: 1:02

Those are the 6 main PKers the Flames have used this season. And really it once again has to do with the new acquisitions Ryan / Lindholm being brought in as RH faceoff specialists for the PK and Hathaway/Jankowski emerging as players.

And really he's a deserving 6th.

Corsi Against Per 60 minutes Short Handed

1) Jankowksi - 65.12
2) Hathaway - 77.09
3) Backlund - 81.07
4) Ryan - 84.43
5) Lindholm - 85.03
6) Frolik - 86.27

High Danger Corsi Against Per 60
1) Jankowski - 12.63
2) Hathaway - 17.62
3) Ryan - 18.85
4) Lindholm - 19.93
5) Backlund - 22.33
6) Frolik - 30.31

Goals Against Per 60 Minutes

1) Jankowski - 4.86
2) Hathaway - 5.51
3) Ryan - 7.38
4) Lindholm - 7.97
5) Backlund - 9.1
6) Frolik -11.66

When it comes to the PK among our 6 regular forwards he's the worst from a Corsi, Goals Against, and High Danger Chances against perspective per 60 minutes. So why should he deserve the ice time over Hathaway and Jankowski who have taken over that role.

Just whining from an agent who's probably hurting the players chances of getting one last payday more than helping it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

And the thing with Frolik is it's not like he's being singled out.

This is the average EV TOI of the 13 forwards that have played a regular shift this season.

Gaudreau: 16:50
Monahan: 16:09
Lindholm: 14:53
Backlund: 14:39
Tkachuk: 14:19
Neal: 13:05
Bennett: 12:02
Frolik: 10:57
Jankowski: 10:08
Ryan: 9:49
Czarnik: 9:27
Dube: 9:05
Hathaway: 8:21

He sits 8th. It's about 3 minutes less per game than him from last year but that should be expected with the additions of Neal, and Lindholm at RW as well.

The only real argument I think you could make is that Neal, Frolik, and Bennett should probably all play around 12 minutes - or the equivalent of moving 1 shift from Neal to Frolik per game. So here Frolik and his agent are getting worked up about 1 shift.

The other area where Frolik probably feels slighted is on the PK.

Last year he play around 2 minutes per game short handed. 3rd on the team behind Backlund and Brouwer.

This year he sits 6th on the roster at 1:02.

Lindholm: 2:09
Backlund: 1:55
Ryan: 1:48
Jankowski: 1:36
Hathaway: 1:28
Frolik: 1:02

Those are the 6 main PKers the Flames have used this season. And really it once again has to do with the new acquisitions Ryan / Lindholm being brought in as RH faceoff specialists for the PK and Hathaway/Jankowski emerging as players.

And really he's a deserving 6th.

Corsi Against Per 60 minutes Short Handed

1) Jankowksi - 65.12
2) Hathaway - 77.09
3) Backlund - 81.07
4) Ryan - 84.43
5) Lindholm - 85.03
6) Frolik - 86.27

High Danger Corsi Against Per 60
1) Jankowski - 12.63
2) Hathaway - 17.62
3) Ryan - 18.85
4) Lindholm - 19.93
5) Backlund - 22.33
6) Frolik - 30.31

Goals Against Per 60 Minutes

1) Jankowski - 4.86
2) Hathaway - 5.51
3) Ryan - 7.38
4) Lindholm - 7.97
5) Backlund - 9.1
6) Frolik -11.66

When it comes to the PK among our 6 regular forwards he's the worst from a Corsi, Goals Against, and High Danger Chances against perspective per 60 minutes. So why should he deserve the ice time over Hathaway and Jankowski who have taken over that role.

Just whining from an agent who's probably hurting the players chances of getting one last payday more than helping it.

Some good insight here but I think you've made a miscalculation in a couple.if points.

The first is, the jmoact of injuries. Frolik has appat been dealing with an ankle.sprain, an injury likely to decrease the quality of his minutes.

I don't think the sleight is coming from reduced PK minutes, I think it directly has to do with playing his even stretch minutes with particular players, and playing as many of their minutes with them as possible.

It's about opportunity: playing with gaudreau provides you with better opportunities to score points, and playing with tkachuk does the same. I don't think there is any mystery why their appears to be a lot.of jockeying about who gets to play with tkahuk; because he's your best shot at producing points.

Bennett's agent sees dollar signs when he sees minutes with tkaxhuk. They are looking at a sub 1.5 mil short term deal in couple of months. Even 10 extra points might net Bennett an extra 500k.

Frolik sees the same thing. He has sacrificed a lot for this club, always comes into camp in excellent shape. I think the things about being a real pro are probably pretty accurate.

He earned his deal with Calgary though by being a 40 point player, and he's looking at two consecutive sub 30 point seasons. He needs to be in a situation to produce points 5-5, and if that situation isn't in Calgary with tkachuk, it will have to be elsewhere.

He's only 30. He's looking to sign his last or second last deal at the end of this contract. I can see why he may be getting impatient if he has said give me minutes or a trade and hasn't seen either.

I think when you look at Neal getting 13 minutes a great compared to froliks 10, you really have to consider whether the coach or the player is in the wrong here. To me, those are prime minutes being given to a player who is less effective at 100% than frolik is at 80%.

I think he has legitimate reason to be upset if he's getting less prime minutes than two guys he is outplaying on a nightly basis. There are millions of dollars on the line for him.

The issue, frankly, is Neal.

[Flash Walken]

I also think categorizing it as whining from the agent is seriously missing the mark.

When was the last time something like this has happened? This is largely unprecedented and speaks to what a rotten situation it must be behind closed doors.

#### like this never even gets out years after the fact, let alone publicized this voraciously by the players representative.

Agents who don't explicitly follow the direction of their clients dont last long as agents. This is a major problem here.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I also think categorizing it as whining from the agent is seriously missing the mark.

When was the last time something like this has happened? This is largely unprecedented and speaks to what a rotten situation it must be behind closed doors.

#### like this never even gets out years after the fact, let alone publicized this voraciously by the players representative.

Agents who don't explicitly follow the direction of their clients dont last long as agents. This is a major problem here.

Walsh does though. It's his go to tactic. I do think it was a last resort thing though.

Walsh did the same thing with Drouin in TB and Shea Weber I think.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I also think categorizing it as whining from the agent is seriously missing the mark.

When was the last time something like this has happened? This is largely unprecedented and speaks to what a rotten situation it must be behind closed doors.

#### like this never even gets out years after the fact, let alone publicized this voraciously by the players representative.

Agents who don't explicitly follow the direction of their clients dont last long as agents. This is a major problem here.

Agreed, and it's Frolik's attitude.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Ah, the ol' Sam Bennett scoring chances stat.

A logo burner from outside the faceoff dots or trying to jam a puck in under the pads.

Why are we still entertaining the idea Bennett's high danger scoring chances for are indicative if anything at all?

The GRIT index is more relevant to Bennett than hdscp.

Man you guys just don't give up.

It's a good thing to shoot near the goalie more often than your teammates. It forces a save from in close, it creates rebounds and is generally what any coach at any level wants.

There has yet to be an argument in this year long debate that suggests otherwise.

He doesn't finish, and with that it's a toss up for the best fit on the second line, but a player getting good looks is a good thing in any level of hockey.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The issue, frankly, is Neal.

There is some truth here and frankly it's a tough spot for Peters because he probably feels pressure to try to get Neal going due to the contract situation.

But even then when it comes to playing with Tkachuk - it's not Neal blocking Frolik.

Looking at TOI with Tkachuk.

Tkachuk + Frolik: 130 minutes in 25 games (5.2 minutes per game)
Tkachuk + Neal: 98 minutes in 41 games (2.4 minutes per game)
Tkachuk+ Bennett: 182 minutes in 40 GP (4.5 minutes per game)

Really Bennett only got that shot on that line with Tkachuk because Frolik was injured. And nobody is going to replace Lindholm on the RW opposite Johnny now.

So really it's most likely that Frolik and Bennett are going to rotate between the 2nd/3rd line and I think a lot of it's going to be matchup dependent.

I think Walsh was valid in his criticism of Frolik getting healthy scratched but honestly don't think he really has a leg to stand on when it comes to ice time. This team has 5 top forwards - and then after that it's going to be a rotation among the bottom 7 guys.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Walsh does though. It's his go to tactic. I do think it was a last resport thing though.

Walsh did the same thing with Drouin in TB and Shea Weber I think.

Exactly ... this is the Walsh playbook. It's not a Calgary thing.