[News] Jan 3 UPD: Frolik's agent complains about his ice time

[agulati]

Frolik has every right to feel the way he does. It is absolutely in bad taste for a player to go publicly through an agent though, to voice the displeasure.

The team is on fire, and has been doing really well. It does not need a distraction to throw it off its game.

[gamesaver]

This is an interesting subject as I agree with both Gaskal and DeluxeMustache opinions. I would like to see either:

A: Frolik parting ways with Welsh, sending a clear message that he wants to stay with the Flames.

B: Tre trading Fro straight away, sending a clear message this is not how you earn ice-time on his team.

But the whole thing sucks big time, I think we all can agree on that.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I totally see Gaskal’s point that you don’t air dirty laundry.

But the optics of Neal doing nothing, but Frolik still not being able to crack the lineup as a regular are horrible for the player. He could be healthy scratched out of a career by minding his Ps and Qs.

And for the team, all free agents considering Calgary, etc., it is exactly what it is. Not merit based.

Yep, it is ugly.

[Phagoof]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I totally see Gaskal’s point that you don’t air dirty laundry.

But the optics of Neal doing nothing, but Frolik still not being able to crack the lineup as a regular are horrible for the player. He could be healthy scratched out of a career by minding his Ps and Qs.

And for the team, all free agents considering Calgary, etc., it is exactly what it is. Not merit based.

Yep, it is ugly.

That is a way to look at it actually. Frolik is probably worried that after his contract is up, he either won't be signed, or will have to take a huge pay cut do to being perceived as over the hill. Still not classy to handle it in public, but maybe he tried behind closed doors already?

There is really no excuse to why Neal is getting the minutes he is. It would be different if he was working hard and doing the right things and just being snake bitten, but this is totally not what's going on. The guy looks lazy and seems to be more interested in watching the top line play while on the bench then producing himself. Perfect example of this is when he iced the puck tonight, his head was that much out of the game that he couldn't take 3 more strides to get over center ice? There is obviously some disconnect going on with him, maybe he should talk to a sports psychologist. Let's be real, if he wasn't a big UFA acquisition and didn't have the track record he does he would have been on the 4th line/ benched a long time ago. He's been that bad. It's half way through the season, it's put up or shut up time for Neal.

Maybe it is for the best that we did trade Frolik though, stuff like this can't be good for the dressing room.

[gamesaver]

And the bottom line is you can blame James Neal for this situation, because this is pretty much Neal taking Fro's spot on the second line. If he has contributed as expected, Frolik and his agent would have nothing in hand as the top 6 would have been rightfully claimed. The same situation as when Neal was upset because Lindholm took his spot on the first line, but there was pretty much no argument as Lindholm steamrolled over him. But this is the complete opposite, Neal is a goal scorer who doesn't score and Frolik is an all-round right wing that is outscoring the "goal scorer"... The reason why Neal gets his spot is not because Neal is better, it's actually because Neal is worse than Frolik in every aspect of the game and can't be used in multiple roles as Fro. That being said, the team comes first and Frolik needs to make up his mind, does he want another shot at lord Stanley, or is he fine with that one ring he has and is looking for a bigger role? I think it's the second one, that is why he left the Hawks in the first place, to get a bigger role somewhere else. And if you consider this, do you want that kind of a player on a team that wants to win it all, despite how good he is and what he can do? The answer is obvious. But then again, can you afford to let him go? Right wing depth is not exactly our biggest strenght... Just a bad, bad situation to deal with. But we wouldn't have to if Neal was the Real Deal.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Meh. The team would benefit from more ice time from Frolik.

How’d Neal do on his 2 on 0?
What did Czarnik do?
Is Hathaway that great on the PK (and I acknowledge he is good at it) that you need to dress him over a guy that can truly play up and down the lineup in all situations?

I’m all for good team guys, and by all accounts Fro is one. But he also is a proven good player who is better than a lot of dead weight on this team.

The ‘Peters is winning so you gotta trust him’ is lovely but is a lousy argument and a cop out. Really the team wins largely based on top line offense, not the random blending down below. Sure as hell ain’t winning because Ryan belongs on PP2, or due to Neal, Dube, Mangiapane, etc.

Sucks that his agent has to do this, but at his age this kind of stuff can ruin a guy’s career and cost him millions.

I bet the team has sent the message that they want guys to be pissed not to play and this is a consequence of that.

Go Fro!

Wait, so you're giving Peters zero credit for this turnaround, from a team that looked brutal in February to a team that is 3rd overall this year?

[Vinny01]

I would be surprised if Frolik ends the season with the Flames. I would be completely shocked if he finished his contract with the team

[Kasi]

As others (Pepsi I think) has shown we’re in the same range as other teams in contribution percentage from the top line. Top lines score a lot, that’s how they work.

And even with the top line Peters is obviously credited with improvements there. Look at early on in the season where Gaudreau and Monahan despite scoring well were actually a net negative (their line was being outscored) because their line was allowing so many high danger scoring chances. Peters deserves a lot of credit for getting those two engaged defensively. They both look far more involved on that side of the puck then they ever did before.

[dammage79]

I'm still fully expecting a tale of two Neal's this season. I buy the excuse that he has played far too much hockey to actually have any impact in the early part of the season. Truth be told he doesn't look anywhere near his top gear. Still have faith he gets going. Just going to be the last quarter of the year. Which is fine. They don't or haven't really needed him yet.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I would be surprised if Frolik ends the season with the Flames. I would be completely shocked if he finished his contract with the team

Unless a team really wants him in the return in a trade for a goaltender I feel there's very little chance Frolik is traded as depth is important in the playoffs. In the offseason it's a possibility for sure. As much as we are making of these agent comments I'm pretty sure Treliving has paid very little attention as he has much bigger fish to fry. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't even bothered to read the latest comments. It's really just noise at this point.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

But the team is also making bad obvious decisions in favour of guys who are worse, and lucky the top line is usually outscoring their problems. Entering today they had 4 guys in the top 17 scorers in a 31 team league!

I think saying that the team is making obvious bad decisions is an oversimplification and opinion rather than statement of fact.
Frolik, Ryan, Jankowski are all unable to really drive offense. So while having Ryan on the 2nd PP isn't ideal, I don't know that Frolik or Janko is really an upgrade.
One can debate if Neal should continue to get ice-time over Frolik I suppose but getting him going and playing to his historic levels has more upside than what Frolik can do.


The coaching staff allocates time and assignments based on what they think gives them the best chance to win. So referring to those calls as "obvious bad decisions" doesn't seem logical. They may not be decisions you agree with- and that's fine- but there is a rationale behind them that is sound.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I totally see Gaskal’s point that you don’t air dirty laundry.

But the optics of Neal doing nothing, but Frolik still not being able to crack the lineup as a regular are horrible for the player. He could be healthy scratched out of a career by minding his Ps and Qs.

And for the team, all free agents considering Calgary, etc., it is exactly what it is. Not merit based.

Yep, it is ugly.

Again an over simplification. Players have roles and what the team is hoping Neal can do for them are not the same things that they expect Frolik to do.

They aren't apples to apples players.

I think most would look at how the Flames are assigning ice time and understand the logic behind it.

[schteve_d]

I agree that Frolik should be playing more, but I vehemently disagree with this tactic. To me, it seems it would be counter-productive. They are tying the Flames hands. They can't play him more now and have it look like it is because they are ceding to the agent's heavy-handed tactics, and on the other side of it his trade value is being diminished with every tweet.

Really dumb way to handle things in my opinion.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Wait, so you're giving Peters zero credit for this turnaround, from a team that looked brutal in February to a team that is 3rd overall this year?

No, those are your words.

I’m saying that just because Peters has a great top line and the team is doing great, doesn’t mean that every decision he makes is perfect.

I thought that was obvious.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

I agree that Frolik should be playing more, but I vehemently disagree with this tactic. To me, it seems it would be counter-productive. They are tying the Flames hands. They can't play him more now and have it look like it is because they are ceding to the agent's heavy-handed tactics, and on the other side of it his trade value is being diminished with every tweet.

Really dumb way to handle things in my opinion.

I don't think things go public without exhausting all the behind the curtain options first. Fro's a good team guy. Always has been a good pro. There's obviously a big disconnect between the player and the organization.

This was likely the last option Fro had to get the wheels turning. So while it is in poor taste to air dirty laundry, it's usually the last possible option.

[CroFlames]

Scratching Frolik raised my eyebrow. Frolik is better than most of the bottom six, so I didn't see a reason to scratch him. I imagine the agent (and the player) probably see it the same way.


Having said that, Flames are in 1st so it would appear that Peters knows what he is doing so the player needs to fall in line, and it appears that he is.



Walsh is just being Walsh and will use this as a tactic to gain more clients. That's sports entertainment for ya.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I would be surprised if Frolik ends the season with the Flames. I would be completely shocked if he finished his contract with the team

Watching Frolik play and looking at his numbers, I don't see why the Flames have any need to trade him. He helps this team win more so than the majority of the other forwards on this team. He and Allen Walsh are probably looking at a guy like James Neal being gifted all these games and minutes and they probably can't believe that he's being scratched over him and some others. Guy has 9 goals in 25 games playing 12 minutes a game. For a goal starved bottom 6, I'd trade others before I'd trade Frolik at this point.

It sounds like the guy still wants to be here and even though his agent went about it in a not so ideal way, I wouldn't trade Frolik because of that. For what he brings to the team and the type of guy he is, this can be overlooked. If he helps this team win, keep him.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Unless a team really wants him in the return in a trade for a goaltender I feel there's very little chance Frolik is traded as depth is important in the playoffs. In the offseason it's a possibility for sure. As much as we are making of these agent comments I'm pretty sure Treliving has paid very little attention as he has much bigger fish to fry. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't even bothered to read the latest comments. It's really just noise at this point.

Walsh went public with Pacioretty, Drouin and those players were both eventually traded. I agree it might not happen until the summer but I doubt he finishes his deal here.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think saying that the team is making obvious bad decisions is an oversimplification and opinion rather than statement of fact.
Frolik, Ryan, Jankowski are all unable to really drive offense. So while having Ryan on the 2nd PP isn't ideal, I don't know that Frolik or Janko is really an upgrade.
One can debate if Neal should continue to get ice-time over Frolik I suppose but getting him going and playing to his historic levels has more upside than what Frolik can do.


The coaching staff allocates time and assignments based on what they think gives them the best chance to win. So referring to those calls as "obvious bad decisions" doesn't seem logical. They may not be decisions you agree with- and that's fine- but there is a rationale behind them that is sound.

A lot of hand waving.

The rationale may be actually quite simple. Ryan is Peters’ guy. Neal is Tre’s marquee free agent. Politics and agendas exist.

Very plausible to say their deployment is more based on team long term cap commitment, and need to backfill the other 6-12 F roles in a cheaper manner.

I am pretty sure that you yourself have noted at times that teams, certainly with the example when discussing asset management, that teams must not make near term decisions without considering or compromising the long term needs of the team.

Now does Peters think he can get away with certain decisions based on risk of losing? Probably. Because like I said the big 5 more often than not can outscore all of the other problems.

But no. Peters is not living for today and forgetting about tomorrow. Even suggesting that does not give the man credit.

I know you tend to err on the side of the management and coaching. Even did defending Gulutzan along the way. And that is something that is fine as well.

You can’t have it both ways.

It is very plausible that Frolik is not in the longer term plans. It is very plausible that this was considered internally when they made the decision to bring in Neal and Ryan. Should have been. Tre has to operate with a strategy.

[Toonage]

And Frolik not finishing his deal here is great as they will need that money for Tkachuk, Bennett, Rittich, etc. He was likely going to be moved this off season regardless.