[PGT] Gaudreau leaves early; Flames lose 3-2

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It's great to say some random person is an insider. Who is it?

One of the biggest reasons Neal even signed with the Flames was because of his good buddy Smith. Now they're arguing?

I probably give my good buddies more crap than anyone when they screw up..because they're my good buddies and I know what they can handle.

And vice versa of course.

[Toonage]

I don't think you need to be an insider to figure out that players had words with each other after that loss. That being said, its nice to read something like that if only for the comfort of thinking that the players might feel the same way a lot of us do.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ I think Smith’s NTC is an 8 team list. So the only way he refuses Detroit is if they were on it.

I wonder how frequently they need to submit that list. Is it an every year thing, or is it something where they ask for it when they decide to start shopping him

More importantly, who would want him the way he is playing now?

He may not have a full NTC on paper but his performance probably means in reality he is not tradeable.
And I also think that it will be tough to acquire a quality goalie mid-season. I don't even think Allen is realistic. Who are the Blues going to use then?

I see the options as follows

- Let Rittich run with the ball. See how he does
- Sign a guy like Mason (barf) or Lehtonen (less barfy). Lehtonen has had conditioning issues in the past though and I'm not sure if could step in
- Scour the league for a guy sitting 2nd or 3rd in the depth chart who could perhaps step up.

- Sign Freddie Brathwaite. Worked before.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

He may not have a full NTC on paper but his performance probably means in reality he is not tradeable.
And I also think that it will be tough to acquire a quality goalie mid-season. I don't even think Allen is realistic. Who are the Blues going to use then?

I see the options as follows

- Let Rittich run with the ball. See how he does
- Sign a guy like Mason (barf) or Lehtonen (less barfy). Lehtonen has had conditioning issues in the past though and I'm not sure if could step in
- Scour the league for a guy sitting 2nd or 3rd in the depth chart who could perhaps step up.

- Sign Freddie Brathwaite. Worked before.

Freddie only works if you try out Trefilov, Moss, Giguere and Garner first.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ I think Smith’s NTC is an 8 team list. So the only way he refuses Detroit is if they were on it.

I wonder how frequently they need to submit that list. Is it an every year thing, or is it something where they ask for it when they decide to start shopping him

More importantly, who would want him the way he is playing now?

I'm not sure. If I'm the player I don't want to decide until I see where teams are standing. If it's the team you want to know who you can talk to as early as possible. Detroit might be in that boat, given the last few years and the prospects for this year.

Goalies have an advantage in modified NTCs since there are only two spots on a roster and they can submit a list that doesn't include places that are pretty set in goal, since they can be reasonably sure that's not a potential trading partner anyway. They can also do some cap analysis and see who would even want to take on his salary.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

He may not have a full NTC on paper but his performance probably means in reality he is not tradeable.
And I also think that it will be tough to acquire a quality goalie mid-season. I don't even think Allen is realistic. Who are the Blues going to use then?

I see the options as follows

- Let Rittich run with the ball. See how he does
- Sign a guy like Mason (barf) or Lehtonen (less barfy). Lehtonen has had conditioning issues in the past though and I'm not sure if could step in
- Scour the league for a guy sitting 2nd or 3rd in the depth chart who could perhaps step up.

- Sign Freddie Brathwaite. Worked before.

The list of trading partners for Smith is sooooo small. You need a team with a good goalie you want, cap space for Smith for one year, who isn't a contender (and therefore needs their good goalie) and sees a reason to do the deal.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Allen makes no sense for the Flames. He's just as awful as Smith.

Really gotta wonder how Sigalet still has a job though. Should have been gone after 2016. Or the 2017 playoffs. Or the second half of 2018. Three different pairs of goalies, three identical results.

I'm going to pull certain quotes from The Athletic article on goalie coaches about crap Sigalet does and why I want him as far away from this team's goalies is possible. TLDR: He's a 'yes-man'. I've watched similar minded coaches slowly destroy the career of BJ Penn.

https://theathletic.com/607543/2018/...-goalie-coach/

The statistic Sigalet uses to grade his charges is save percentage on scoring-chance shots – anything above .800 is acceptable.

Are you kidding me with that .800 crap? Where did this BS statistic get spawned from?

“I’ll do drills on the ice, but I won’t tell them why we’re doing it,” said Sigalet. “I don’t want to be like, ‘We’re doing this because you’re struggling here,’ because then they’ll be over-thinking. So it’s doing it secretly to work on a certain part of their game.”

Why not be straight up? That's what I'd want.

“If a goalie has a bad game, I usually don’t even show him the clips,” said Sigalet, “unless there’s a serious teaching point.”

If a goalie has a bad game, that means there's a serious teaching point or few. Again, what the eff with this logic.

[Table 5]

I'm all for paying big for that long-term solution, but at this stage I'd be ok with taking on another stop-gap goalie just to get to try something else. You can't let this stink fester for too long, it's going to ruin the season.

Regardless, they need to start leaning even more on Rittich. He may not be your ultimate answer, but he's a significant upgrade right now on what Smith gives you.

[Shazam]

He sounds like the kind of manager people like, but do great harm to performance.

[Huntingwhale]

I was talking with my Jets' buddy today and he was saying how the Smith/Rittich situation is similar to how the Mason/Hellebuyck was for the Jets' had last season. Mason was brought in to be the veteran presence and Hellebuyck the backup as he continued to develop. As we all know, Mason consistently crapped the bed and eventually Hellebuyck took over on his way to a Vezina nomination.

I'm not saying Rittich is the same as Hellebuyck or will have the same success. But the Jets' recognized that their veteran goalie wasn't cutting it and that the other guy deserved a chance to show what he had and make a run of it. They made the change and it worked out.

Again, I'm not saying DR is the next Hellebuyck. But we KNOW what Smith is. He's not the long term solution in net. Since the day he was brought it, it was known he was here be a placeholder and to help transition over a younger goalie who showed potential.

Last season Rittich showed he was the best backup this team has had since Roman Turek. Finally....finally we have a backup who shows himself to be confident and can take the next step. I think the team knows this, but at the same time they want Smith to at least be competent in net.

At the very least I also feel bad for Smith. It's not like he's enjoys sucking, but it is what it is. I sure hope he and his family are avoiding any kind of social media, newspapers and radio today. Because I haven't seen a Flames' player get ripped on all media outlets like this since Elliott crapped the bed during the playoffs.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

So far, Treliving has traded a 35th overall pick, a former 64th overall pick and a 73rd overall pick for two crappy goalies. The going rate for a good starter in a trade seems to be either a late first and a late 2nd or a top 10-15 1st. I wonder at what point the cumulative number of picks we have given up for below average goalies is the equivalent of the value of a 15th overall pick for a decent goalie? I suspect if you packaged the 3 picks we gave up you could get a 1st rounder in the 20-25 range, so we have to be knocking on the door of using the equivalent amount of assets on bad goalies as it would have cost us for Andersson or Raanta.

This is true. It is also spilled milk at this point.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This is true. It is also spilled milk at this point.

That is true, just an observation on how woefully inadequate management has been regarding goaltending over the past couple years.

In more positive news, Mason McDonald has the second highest save percentage of any professional goalie in the Flames organization.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Gaskal, on the Sigalet quotes

I generally agree, although the .800 thing (exact number aside) I get in principle.

Just sv% is a bit of a bogus statistic, if used wrong. For example, at the single game or handful of games level. You do need to isolate the muffins from the outside from the ‘Royal road’ crossing chances, and gauge a goaltender on how they handle the difficult saves.

Unfortunately, that presupposes that they are doing their job adequately on the easy stuff, and that appears to be an issue with Smith.

[Rick M.]

Is there any word on the Gaudreau injury?

[Toonage]

I'm bothered by the "I don't tell him why I'm doing this" approach. That leaves the goalie thinking he needs work in one area when actually it could be something totally different. Keep throwing pucks at his glove, Smith thinks he has a glove issue. Really you're trying to get him to hug the post etc. Its a bad move for a coach to, you know, not coach.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

I'm going to pull certain quotes from The Athletic article on goalie coaches about crap Sigalet does and why I want him as far away from this team's goalies is possible. TLDR: He's a 'yes-man'. I've watched similar minded coaches slowly destroy the career of BJ Penn.

https://theathletic.com/607543/2018/...-goalie-coach/

Are you kidding me with that .800 crap? Where did this BS statistic get spawned from?


Why not be straight up? That's what I'd want.


If a goalie has a bad game, that means there's a serious teaching point or few. Again, what the eff with this logic.

I understand the rationale. I think it means you can't pad your stats with dribblers and routine saves. He looks at the save% on really legit scoring chances. I guess he has to include softies though.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

He may not have a full NTC on paper but his performance probably means in reality he is not tradeable.
And I also think that it will be tough to acquire a quality goalie mid-season. I don't even think Allen is realistic. Who are the Blues going to use then?

I see the options as follows

- Let Rittich run with the ball. See how he does
- Sign a guy like Mason (barf) or Lehtonen (less barfy). Lehtonen has had conditioning issues in the past though and I'm not sure if could step in
- Scour the league for a guy sitting 2nd or 3rd in the depth chart who could perhaps step up.

- Sign Freddie Brathwaite. Worked before.

This is exactly right. I will add a fourth option, which is that you hope somehow Smith recovers. I know it seems unlikely right now but as you say he really is not tradeable and you can't play Rittich every game.

It is option 3 which seems most likely right now, scouring the league for a 2nd or 3rd stringer and hope you get half as lucky as the Kipper and Dubnyk situations.

[CalgaryFan1988]

nm

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

I'm going to pull certain quotes from The Athletic article on goalie coaches about crap Sigalet does and why I want him as far away from this team's goalies is possible. TLDR: He's a 'yes-man'. I've watched similar minded coaches slowly destroy the career of BJ Penn.

https://theathletic.com/607543/2018/...-goalie-coach/

Are you kidding me with that .800 crap? Where did this BS statistic get spawned from?


Why not be straight up? That's what I'd want.


If a goalie has a bad game, that means there's a serious teaching point or few. Again, what the eff with this logic.

A goalie coach that plays head games with a goalie that has head issues is a very bad combination.

[Machiavelli]

Just kidnap Saros or Rinne. It's not fair that team gets the best defense AND the best goalie tandem in the league.