[PGT] Gaudreau leaves early; Flames lose 3-2

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Trade for Allen, bring up Parsons, call our tandem the Allen-Parsons Project

Profit.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by AC

I didn't think the slash on Gaudreau was that bad since it was stick on stick first, then rides up and his Johnny's forearm.

However, I didn't even notice the Getzlaf crosscheck at the end. That was deliberately done to hurt Gaudreau. A dirty crosscheck directly into the unprotected part of his arm.


https://gfycat.com/InferiorDapperAlaskajingle

8spot
Looks to me like the ribs get a big blow as part of the crosscheck

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

9-6-1 is pretty impressive for a team with lackluster goaltending.

It is but the 3rd period comebacks won't last and they are bound to go through some goal scoring slumps over the year and that's where the shoddy goaltending is going to kill them. It's always something with this team whether it be poor goaltending, poor special teams, lack of scoring, etc. It seems like whenever they get close to putting things together and taking that next step something holds them back and this season it's pretty clear goaltending is probably going to limit them to a bubble playoff team when they should be challenging for a top spot in the conference.

[Ashasx]

I don't notice any media personalities talking about a Gaudreau injury. I don't think it's serious.

[Otto-matic]

I just heard that Neal and Smith had a little argument in the dressing room right after the game. Apparently Neal was not happy with something Mike Smith said about defensive miscues in the game. Neal told him and I quote "make a ####ing save".

I've heard they are friends off the ice but they've had words twice now in less than a week. Players are not happy with Mike Smith.

take this with a grain of salt but its from the Reddit User Adragon23 who seems pretty connected with the Flames. IIRC he broke some major Flames news this summer before it happened.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Hahaha! What?

I acknowledge that he is playing poorly now, but Smith for a long, long time was a very acrobatic goalie who routinely made ridiculous saves on what looked to be sure goals.

I should not be surprised with how often it happens, but I am astonished with how readily people make things up to validate their thoughts or feelings.

So, in summary:

• Mike Smith has been an excellent goalie for years.
• He is not playing well now, and looks nothing like how he did even last year, to say nothing of his larger body of work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Making things up? Kind of funny that you say, unsubstantiated, that he has been excellent. Validating your feelings, perhaps.

Mike Smith has been an average goalie for years. League average sv% from 2010 to 2018 has been steady in the .912 to .915 range. In 2011-12 he put up a .930, the only year he has had significantly above average numbers. Other than that, 4 years .914-.916, and 3 years .910 or lower.

Average numbers on Tippett teams, brutally boring teams with defense first systems. I will remind you of guys like Manny Fernandez and Dwayne Roloson platooning and putting up both .930 in Minnesota.

Sometimes athletic goalies make ridiculous saves to recover from putting them self out of position.

I don’t think there is a story supported by data that puts Mike Smith as an excellent goalie for years. Sorry.

What he has been for years is fiery and competitive and unafraid to call out teammates. Not a good look for an average goalie, much less one who is this year arguably the worst in the league.

[FiveSeven]

We can deal with Gaudreau being hurt for a bit, but only if Smith isn't in net.

At what point does it become about winning the season and not about getting Smith going, I know they aren't exclusive but damn ricky.

[Aarongavey]

Mike Smith improved his save percentage last night, maybe a sign of things to come? If he can heat up he could get up to .880 or even .890

[Huntingwhale]

I hate the Ducks so much more then the Oilers and Canucks combined. That franchise can literally go to hell. Losers of 8/9. Pile of injuries. And yet, they STILL find a way to beat us even when the Flames' outplay them. Always making their goalie look like a damn Vezina winner. Seriously, #### them.

I don't care that Smith broke the curse last season. It's still only 1 win in 15 years there. The place is a god damn voodoo curse sitting on cursed lands. The Flames' will never win there consistently. I just have a sickening feeling if they make the playoffs, it's going to be a 1st round match up there.

I get the team needs to give some rope to Smith for him to get his groove back. But I've said it before; veteran goalies that play out the final year of their contract with the Flames' ALWAYS faulter and hurt the team. Smith this season, Hiller, Kipper, MacDonald, Cujo, Backstrom etc. It goes back decades. Veteran goalies in the final year are no damn good on this team.

At least the rest of the team played decent once their feet got under them. It's easy to blame Smith for the 1st goal (which is one of the worst goals I've ever seen), but the team was sucking real bad up to that point. But NHL goalies can't let those in. They just...can't.

There's a goalie sitting on the bench who is just entering his breakout season, with a .927 sv% who actually instills confidence in the team. If the team wants to give more rope to Smith for him to get his groove back, then they have to be prepared to lose plenty more games like this. Because it sure didn't work out trying for Hiller et al to get their grooves back. It's not gonna work with Smith.

Disappointing loss, but at the same time not surprising given the stupid arena they were playing in.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Mike Smith improved his save percentage last night, maybe a sign of things to come? If he can heat up he could get up to .880 or even .890

True enough. If he just gets hot and puts up 5 shutouts in a row with an average of 27 saves, that would put him around average.

[8sPOT]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

8spot
Looks to me like the ribs get a big blow as part of the crosscheck

Wow yes he does get a crosscheck after the slash. Double whammy there indeed. Did not see that live at all.

[Flash Walken]

As much as I agree with brownas backlund take, I disagree with his Mike Smith take.

[tvp2003]

Until we have a better option on the roster (i.e. someone other than Gillies or Parsons, who need to stay in Stockton), Peters is shooting himself in the foot if he calls out Smith like he did with Lack. The one thing he can control is who starts, and its unfortunate there is a back-to-back coming up as otherwise I think you'd see him roll with Rittich.

I'm guessing Treliving is also looking at other options in net. Heck, he'd probably be looking at other options even if Smith was playing well...

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by AC

More fuel to the fire about his possible hand injury. A poster mentioned recently that Warrener claimed Backlund wasn't shaking with his right hand at a charity event recently.

Well then he shouldn't be playing. That sure goal would have changed the entire game around.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It is but the 3rd period comebacks won't last and they are bound to go through some goal scoring slumps over the year and that's where the shoddy goaltending is going to kill them. It's always something with this team whether it be poor goaltending, poor special teams, lack of scoring, etc. It seems like whenever they get close to putting things together and taking that next step something holds them back and this season it's pretty clear goaltending is probably going to limit them to a bubble playoff team when they should be challenging for a top spot in the conference.

You say tgat though like that’s a unique thing to this team. Tgat is true of most teams in the NHL, with the exception of the true 3 or 4 elite teams. Everyone else has holes and us working towards fixing them.

Don’t get me wrong, the goaltending is a big issue. But what this team has done so far is a huge step over the previous two seasons. Peace on the fact tgat they must sustain it, but so far in 16 games the team IMO looks much better but still a big problem in net. I’m also less worried about the 3rd period comebacks, because they are directly correlated to the goalie issues and it’s not like the team has been “flicking a switch” in the third to do them, they’ve actually just continued to play well all game.

But you are right, there will be “slumps” outside of the goalies at some point which means without fixing the goaltending the winning percentage to date will reduce and thus team will drop in the standings. Right now our net minders are giving the rest of the team 0 margin for error and that’s just not realistic.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

take this with a grain of salt but its from the Reddit User Adragon23 who seems pretty connected with the Flames. IIRC he broke some major Flames news this summer before it happened.

I could see it.

If you are a Flames player last night, and you just lost that game, the last thing you need is Mike Smith coming into the room spouting about defensive miscues.

Scoring chances were 29-17, High Danger chances were 12-7 and yet you still lost 3-2 because your goalie let in one bad goal, one questionable goal, and one tough but savable goal.

Honestly Smith just needs to keep quiet and take accountability for the soft goals he's let in.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Wisers

Mike Smith is horrible. I can’t believe he even starts games anymore! 3.66 GAA and .872 save percentage? Brutal. The Flames should move on and quit waiting for him to “ come around”. He’s done.

How exactly do they "move on"? They would need to replace him with a quality goalie. Let's say that's Jimmy Howard because Detroit is rebuilding. He's about a $5M contract. Flames currently have about $1.6M in space. So you can't just acquire him without getting rid of salary.

Smith's cap hit is $4.25M (because AZ still pays some salary). If you bury Smith in the minors you save about $1M bucks. You are still over the cap.

The only way is to either trade Smith (who has a modified NTC and could well refuse a trade to Detroit for legit reasons) or trade another sizeable contract - but who? I'd say Ryan but that's a bad UFA message, and I'm not sure the math works even then. Stone? he makes about the same as Ryan plus he has a modified NTC and he wants to live in Calgary (his wife and her family is from here).

I guess they could go with Rittich and Gillies and see how that goes. The cap hit wouldn't be affected much because Gillies makes less than the relief for burying Smith.

[Aarongavey]

So far, Treliving has traded a 35th overall pick, a former 64th overall pick and a 73rd overall pick for two crappy goalies. The going rate for a good starter in a trade seems to be either a late first and a late 2nd or a top 10-15 1st. I wonder at what point the cumulative number of picks we have given up for below average goalies is the equivalent of the value of a 15th overall pick for a decent goalie? I suspect if you packaged the 3 picks we gave up you could get a 1st rounder in the 20-25 range, so we have to be knocking on the door of using the equivalent amount of assets on bad goalies as it would have cost us for Andersson or Raanta.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

You say tgat though like that’s a unique thing to this team. Tgat is true of most teams in the NHL, with the exception of the true 3 or 4 elite teams. Everyone else has holes and us working towards fixing them.

Don’t get me wrong, the goaltending is a big issue. But what this team has done so far is a huge step over the previous two seasons. Peace on the fact tgat they must sustain it, but so far in 16 games the team IMO looks much better but still a big problem in net. I’m also less worried about the 3rd period comebacks, because they are directly correlated to the goalie issues and it’s not like the team has been “flicking a switch” in the third to do them, they’ve actually just continued to play well all game.

But you are right, there will be “slumps” outside of the goalies at some point which means without fixing the goaltending the winning percentage to date will reduce and thus team will drop in the standings. Right now our net minders are giving the rest of the team 0 margin for error and that’s just not realistic.

I agree with most of tgat.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ I think Smith’s NTC is an 8 team list. So the only way he refuses Detroit is if they were on it.

I wonder how frequently they need to submit that list. Is it an every year thing, or is it something where they ask for it when they decide to start shopping him

More importantly, who would want him the way he is playing now?