Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Spinach

2012-13: Start the teardown late in the season, drafted Monahan + busts
2013-14: Year 1 of the rebuild, drafted a disappointing Bennett and... nothing else.
2014-2015: Year 2 of the rebuild, miraculously made round 2. Traded for Dougie, drafted useful parts
2015-16: A poor season in Year 3 of the rebuild. Drafted Tkachuk & other potentials.
2016-17: Lost in round 1 in Year 4 of the rebuild. Drafted Valimaki.
2017-2018: A poor season in Year 5. No high draft picks.
2018-19: Not a great start...


The last five years show that the Flames' rebuild isn't linear, nor has it gone perfectly in terms of drafting. The '14 draft, getting only one player in the '13, and sitting out the first two rounds of the '18 draft could especially hold this franchise back. Disregarding the clown show in Shelbyville, I wonder how the Flames compare to other teams that started rebuilding around the same time.

Not sure I would say Bennett is a disappointment as he has performed well when he has been given a role but with the way the lineups are, it hasn't always been easy for him to find a consistent role. I am hoping he gets a serious look on that top line and turns any doubters into believers.

The rest of the rebuild seems to go par for the course until the bad year last year which we can point to a few direct reasons. We lost a ton of 1 goal games and ran a awful PP. Had the PP been just a touch better we make playoffs without a problem. We also lost at least half a dozen games based on awful coaching decisions.

I recall a stretch of 10 games where we lost 3 or 4 because the 4th line was on the ice in a tie game and got scored on with just a few minutes to go. A 4th line which was much different than this years 4th line.

I also can't help but think of the Frolik own goal, leaving that line on the ice and seeing Froliks head still down in disbelief as the puck was dropped and another goal scored. Yes, that is on Frolik but a coach should clue in how that was a key moment in the game and use a timeout as we have seen Peters do this year.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Don't think the Pens were shopping MAF in 2014?

Also the pick that would have been given to Vegas would have been the 2017 1st. Valimaki.

The 2016 1st (Tkachuk) was being talked about when looking at Bishop wasn't it?

And Frederik Andersen I think.

Ducks were asking for more in return from the Flames than the Leafs.

IIRC the rumor was Ducks wanted the first round pick (6th overall) or Bennett from the Flames. Flames were offering 2 seconds - rumored to be the 2016 35th overall and a 2017 2nd.

Leafs ended up sending a 2016 First (30th overall - Sam Steel) and a 2017 2nd rounder (Max Comtois) to get Andersen.

Flames then moved the 35th overall in the move for Elliott instead.

[Bonded]

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/05/09/r...p-three-times/


At least on Bishop, we missed him once apparently cause we couldn't get King's approval in time

[CaptainYooh]

We don’t know if Fleury was available or not in 2014. It sure looks like Pittsburgh made up their mind on Murray quite early. Kinda irrelevant, really. Most teams would have traded for Bennett after his first year appearance (Anaheim, maybe?). That’s being smart in hindsight. The point was not about trading a specific first rounder, but doing what’s necessary to sign an elite goaltender - the most important player on ice. We do know that both MAF and Bishop were available, 100%. Tre didn’t pay. I think he had to do it.

[CaptainYooh]

Bobrovsky is next. The price will be very high, yes. But Tre needs to bite the bullet and buy an elite goaltender. Let’s face it, not many superstar players want to live in Alberta, when they have other options available.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Bobrovsky is next. The price will be very high, yes. But Tre needs to bite the bullet and buy an elite goaltender. Let’s face it, not many superstar players want to live in Alberta, when they have other options available.

Sorry but as long as the blue jackets are in the playoff hunt they won't be trading bobrovsky unless they are getting an elite goalie coming back. Pretty sure they'd rather go to the playoffs than trade an elite goalie in season even if it means he walks for free.

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

The price will be very high, yes. But Tre needs to bite the bullet and buy an elite goaltender.

Whatever the price may be...

2019 1st round pick (CGY)
2020 1st round pick (CGY)
2020 2nd round pick (CGY)

[Toonage]

Bobrovsky will probably ask for at least his current price (if his game doesn't improve). Otherwise he could be closer to Carey Price's, um, price. Too rich for the Flames.

People have mentioned Varlamov. Injury issues (among other issues) but you know what, that might be the way to go. He'll likely cost over $6M but thats maybe more reasonable. Also isn't he one of the better goalies for high danger SV%? Which seems to be what the Flames really need right now.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Bobrovsky is next. The price will be very high, yes. But Tre needs to bite the bullet and buy an elite goaltender. Let’s face it, not many superstar players want to live in Alberta, when they have other options available.

Bobrovsky won't agree to an extension here much like he won't agree to one in Columbus - and spending $10M on a goalie breaks a team's cap structure - so no reason to give up assets to try and bring him here for what may only be 6 months if he then leaves as UFA.

Saros would probably be the best target.

But I feel like Nashville will try to either squeeze Rinne to take less on a contract to keep both, or they will walk away from Rinne and will move forward with Saros as the starter.

If you are the Flames you either move assets for a young guy like Saros who looks like the real deal for at least 5+ years, or go after one of the UFAs like Varlamov once they hit free agency.

What they need to stop doing is spending assets on short term stop gaps like Elliott, and Smith - and trading for UFA Bobrovsky without an extension has the potential to just be another short term solution.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

While you do that you should also continue to follow Andersson, Dube, Parsons, Kylington as those players were acquired in the Baertschi, Russel, Hudler, Andy Glencross trades

Well, that goes without saying. What is your point, as it's not like no one is following these players progression already. GM will and always should be evaluated on every deal he has made or lost. The players I mentioned were made to address the goalie issue which still hasnt been resolved and the Harmonic deal which hasn't shown to be worth it at the moment.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Bobrovsky is next. The price will be very high, yes. But Tre needs to bite the bullet and buy an elite goaltender. Let’s face it, not many superstar players want to live in Alberta, when they have other options available.

As a UFA? Perhaps Bobrovsky is a target, but I believe his price will be beyond what the Flames can afford. As otherwise mentioned Varlamov seems like a natural target, but it also would not surprise me if Treliving aslo takes a run at Cam Talbot. But again, as of now none of this is happening until the summer. There may be an opportunity to trade for a goalie over the course of the season, but I do not believe there are yet any available upgrades in net. For now, the coaches, Smith and Rittich need to figure this out.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Bobrovsky won't agree to an extension here much like he won't agree to one in Columbus - and spending $10M on a goalie breaks a team's cap structure - so no reason to give up assets to try and bring him here for what may only be 6 months if he then leaves as UFA.

Saros would probably be the best target.

But I feel like Nashville will try to either squeeze Rinne to take less on a contract to keep both, or they will walk away from Rinne and will move forward with Saros as the starter.

If you are the Flames you either move assets for a young guy like Saros who looks like the real deal for at least 5+ years, or go after one of the UFAs like Varlamov once they hit free agency.

What they need to stop doing is spending assets on short term stop gaps like Elliott, and Smith - and trading for UFA Bobrovsky without an extension has the potential to just be another short term solution.

I don't think Saros is at all a realistic target. Nashville is not moving him in the middle of a season in which they have designs on a Stanley Cup, and I am fairly certain he is being groomed to supplant Rinne as early as this season. He will not be traded.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

And Frederik Andersen I think.

Ducks were asking for more in return from the Flames than the Leafs.

IIRC the rumor was Ducks wanted the first round pick (6th overall) or Bennett from the Flames. Flames were offering 2 seconds - rumored to be the 2016 35th overall and a 2017 2nd.

Leafs ended up sending a 2016 First (30th overall - Sam Steel) and a 2017 2nd rounder (Max Comtois) to get Andersen.

Flames then moved the 35th overall in the move for Elliott instead.

This. Naturally the Ducks would demand more from a division rival. And no matter how well Anderssen has performed, he's not worth Chuckie. Can you imagine Tkachuk and Kesler together?

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think Saros is at all a realistic target.

Me either, the price will be way too high, with the Flames being in the same Conference.

[GioforPM]

As far as Bishop goes, he had about the same save% as the Smith with the Flames last year and with AZ the year before. He is off to a good start this year though.

Overall, it's pretty rare and difficult to trade for or sign a starting goalie. Look at Philly and Bryz, look at Vancouver/St. Louis and Miller, Calgary and Elliott. I think Fleury was the best chance but I wasn't even sold on him.

And trading for good looking backups is risky too. A bunch of backup and prospect goalies that posters here drooled over have not panned out. Enroth, Pickard, Brossoit, etc.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

..,As otherwise mentioned Varlamov seems like a natural target.,.

Varlamov is just good, not elite. Streaky, temperamental etc. Bobrovsky is the only proven top-tier goaltender coming up avalable next year. He has to be Tre’s target.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I know lots of fans like to point the finger at the Flames young forwards like Monahan and Gaudreau but the Flames largest issues have been underperforming defensemen in their own zone and this predates them.

Not going to be popular but going back to Brent Sutter this organization has built blue lines that look good on paper but stink on the ice. Only two players have been along for the entire stint and I believe it's time to move on from one or both of them including Giordano who's still a good defender but has been a key cog in team failure over the years long before Johnny and Monahan were part of the team. I just think it's time to turn a new leaf with a new team captain and out with defensemen that have never proven to be part of a solution.

It would be a massive mistake to move on from some of the best forwards this organization has drafted in their history without going clean slate in the underperforming defense core.

Giordano is the best player on the team. This isn't his fault.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Me either, the price will be way too high, with the Flames being in the same Conference.

I don't think they really want to move him either. I think it would take alot to trade him to any team. It's not like Rinne is in his 20s and has alot of years left. And even though he won the Vezina last year there's times where he looks pretty bad and that father time is catching up to him.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I think the flames players just aren't good enough. The rebuild and bottoming out period was short and they didn't get good enough core players.

Gaudreau is special, tkatchuk is a decent piece, but after that it's been disappointing. The flames don't have strength up the middle, the defencemen are not great, goaltending is completely up in the air.

I think it's time to look at the core and really ask if they are anything but average in the current nhl: Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, tkatchuk, Giordano, Brodie, hanafin, hamonic, smith.

That is not going to be a true cup contending group.

I feel like we have tradeable assets in our core to fix our problem.There are quite few high end teams that never had to bottom out like Nashville and the Sharks (I guess there's Marleau when they were an expansion team but nothing else of note). They have had some high robbery style trades pulled off by their GMs and good FA signings. At this point I would be happy with being a perennial 2nd round team. We aren't even there.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Varlamov is just good, not elite. Streaky, temperamental etc. Bobrovsky is the only proven top-tier goaltender coming up avalable next year. He has to be Tre’s target.

Varlamov has better individual stats over the past 5 years playing on a much worse team. He’s better than Bobrovsky.