Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Jiri Hrdina]

At what point do the Flames top players start "feeling the heat".

We have discussions about the coach, GM, captain, goalie coach, goalies, new players acquired.


There is a small group that has been around for a few years now that perhaps we should start looking at?


Where is the core's accountability. They are on their 3rd coach now. At some point, when you've changed everything else, when do you start asking if you've got the right guys at the top of the roster?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

At what point do the Flames top players start "feeling the heat".

We have discussions about the coach, GM, captain, goalie coach, goalies, new players acquired.


There is a small group that has been around for a few years now that perhaps we should start looking at?


Where is the core's accountability. They are on their 3rd coach now. At some point, when you've changed everything else, when do you start asking if you've got the right guys at the top of the roster?

Ok. A fair question.

But what if you have hired a bad coach, then replaced him with, say, another bad coach? How do you eliminate that as a potential problem?

The process of hiring him was not optically good, the team is getting worse when they should be getting better, and the non playoff team he left is 2 games above .500 without him

Just because you change something doesn’t mean you improve it.

Remember when the Flames changed out Gilmour for Leeman?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Haha, why don’t you dazzle everyone with a great comment?

Or was that it?

It was actually pretty good.

And true.

[mrdonkey]

The problem, in reality, is manifold.

The coaching hire was botched from the start. The goaltending is not anywhere near good enough given how long the GM has had to address it. And the core really isn't that great.

I know people hate this word but it really looks like another rebuild may be in order here. The *only* player on the current roster I'd hate to lose is Tkachuk.

[Yoho]

Scotty Bowman couldn’t coach wins from this team right now. Edmonton’s not losing because of coaching either.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Ok. A fair question.

But what if you have hired a bad coach, then replaced him with, say, another bad coach? How do you eliminate that as a potential problem?

The process of hiring him was not optically good, the team is getting worse when they should be getting better, and the non playoff team he left is 2 games above .500 without him

Just because you change something doesn’t mean you improve it.

Remember when the Flames changed out Gilmour for Leeman?

Why was the process not optically good?
Overall though you have changed a lot of variables, including 3 different coaches with 3 different styles. I suppose one could ask what this team would do if Scotty Bowman or Darryl Sutter was in charge, but if this group is so fragile that they can only succeed under a very specific coach, then there is an issue.


But back to my point. The team has changed several variables and some of the same issues remain.

I have my view. And as with everyone my view is biased. But i have concerned about a couple players at the top of the roster and whether you can win with them. I don't see the commitment.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It was actually pretty good.

And true.

Hm. Looked like a drive by with no added value.

Ok, you’re the boss!

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Just because you change something doesn’t mean you improve it.

Things that are true today won't necessarily be true tomorrow. There is a natural ebb and flow to these things. To hockey. I think they may just be finding their own level. Let's let them do that. How many games have been played so far? How many games have we been told it takes for a team to adjust to all these changes? 20, right? We ain't there yet. During the intermission, Francis and Sutter talked about how they saw this coming a few games back.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Im just stating facts! I didn't bring up anything about Peters being fired lol

Opinions aren't facts.

[Manhattanboy]

Fire Peters and hire Sutter!!

[Ashasx]

It feels inevitable that the Flames are going to fire Treliving in the off-season, replace him with somebody like Nieuwendyk, who has a terrible track record, who will massively re-tool the team by making bad trades (not rebuild, but re-tool).

And then we can repeat this cycle again in 5 years.

The life and times of a Flames fan.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Why was the process not optically good?
Overall though you have changed a lot of variables, including 3 different coaches with 3 different styles. I suppose one could ask what this team would do if Scotty Bowman or Darryl Sutter was in charge, but if this group is so fragile that they can only succeed under a very specific coach, then there is an issue.


But back to my point. The team has changed several variables and some of the same issues remain.

I have my view. And as with everyone my view is biased. But i have concerned about a couple players at the couple of the roster and whether you can win with them. I don't see the commitment.

Well, the process was not optically good because they targeted one guy, without a winning pedigree in the NHL and did not interview other available coaches with winning pedigrees.

Flipping the question, what has Bill Peters shown that would warrant a comparison to Scotty or Darryl?

Some coaches are successful in multiple places. Peters is 0 for 1, and he is Tre’s guy.

I like the roster on paper and Tre must be wondering what the heck is happening. It’s just a 3 game slump, so must be kept in perspective, but it’s an ugly one.

I see a problem in style of play right now. Lack of speed on the transition and shots from the outside. Last night the team looked like they did under Gulutzan. In Montreal, they were playing against a fast team and had no answer.

You can skate fast, you can move the puck fast, and you can close gaps quickly. The team is plodding out of their own zone. Not skating their butts off like they did with Hartley.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

At what point do the Flames top players start "feeling the heat".

We have discussions about the coach, GM, captain, goalie coach, goalies, new players acquired.


There is a small group that has been around for a few years now that perhaps we should start looking at?


Where is the core's accountability. They are on their 3rd coach now. At some point, when you've changed everything else, when do you start asking if you've got the right guys at the top of the roster?

Ultimately all of this will make or break Treliving. If he doesn't have the right guys at the top of his roster, that's his fault.

He's running out of time and excuses. Trading away their best players and blowing up the team gets them no closer to the stanley cup.

The reality is the core will probably outlast the GM, and THEN we can finally conclude they aren't the horses you win with.

The Flames don't appear to have any clear waypoints in their "process" of building a team anymore.

I'm fine with trading a piece(s) of the core, but get a proper goddamn goalie and quit with the stop gaps.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Things that are true today won't necessarily be true tomorrow. There is a natural ebb and flow to these things. To hockey. I think they may just be finding their own level. Let's let them do that. How many games have been played so far? How many games have we been told it takes for a team to adjust to all these changes? 20, right? We ain't there yet. During the intermission, Francis and Sutter talked about how they saw this coming a few games back.

Sure, no argument. Lots of time left in the season.

Just the questions people had are still not answered satisfactorily.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Why was the process not optically good?
Overall though you have changed a lot of variables, including 3 different coaches with 3 different styles. I suppose one could ask what this team would do if Scotty Bowman or Darryl Sutter was in charge, but if this group is so fragile that they can only succeed under a very specific coach, then there is an issue.


But back to my point. The team has changed several variables and some of the same issues remain.

I have my view. And as with everyone my view is biased. But i have concerned about a couple players at the top of the roster and whether you can win with them. I don't see the commitment.

They don't need a very specific coach. They need a PROVEN coach.

Hartley was that to a certain extent.

GG certainly was not and to date, Peters is not either.

And Tre apparently never even went after anyone but Peters. That does not sit well with me for the GM or CEO of any organization, sports related or not.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

At what point do the Flames top players start "feeling the heat".

We have discussions about the coach, GM, captain, goalie coach, goalies, new players acquired.


There is a small group that has been around for a few years now that perhaps we should start looking at?


Where is the core's accountability. They are on their 3rd coach now. At some point, when you've changed everything else, when do you start asking if you've got the right guys at the top of the roster?

I think the flames players just aren't good enough. The rebuild and bottoming out period was short and they didn't get good enough core players.

Gaudreau is special, tkatchuk is a decent piece, but after that it's been disappointing. The flames don't have strength up the middle, the defencemen are not great, goaltending is completely up in the air.

I think it's time to look at the core and really ask if they are anything but average in the current nhl: Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, tkatchuk, Giordano, Brodie, hanafin, hamonic, smith.

That is not going to be a true cup contending group.

[Toonage]

Treliving wants his team to play a specific way. The way he feels a team has to in the current structure of the NHL. Gulutzan coached that type of play, but was too much a player's coach. Peters also coaches this way but takes a harder stance.

There was no search because he knew exactly what he wanted. If Peters was available in 2016 he would have been coach then. if he wasn't available last spring then GG would still be here.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

At what point do the Flames top players start "feeling the heat".

We have discussions about the coach, GM, captain, goalie coach, goalies, new players acquired.


There is a small group that has been around for a few years now that perhaps we should start looking at?


Where is the core's accountability. They are on their 3rd coach now. At some point, when you've changed everything else, when do you start asking if you've got the right guys at the top of the roster?

I know lots of fans like to point the finger at the Flames young forwards like Monahan and Gaudreau but the Flames largest issues have been underperforming defensemen in their own zone and this predates them.

Not going to be popular but going back to Brent Sutter this organization has built blue lines that look good on paper but stink on the ice. Only two players have been along for the entire stint and I believe it's time to move on from one or both of them including Giordano who's still a good defender but has been a key cog in team failure over the years long before Johnny and Monahan were part of the team. I just think it's time to turn a new leaf with a new team captain and out with defensemen that have never proven to be part of a solution.

It would be a massive mistake to move on from some of the best forwards this organization has drafted in their history without going clean slate in the underperforming defense core.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Treliving wants his team to play a specific way. The way he feels a team has to in the current structure of the NHL. Gulutzan coached that type of play, but was too much a player's coach. Peters also coaches this way but takes a harder stance.

There was no search because he knew exactly what he wanted. If Peters was available in 2016 he would have been coach then. if he wasn't available last spring then GG would still be here.

Then Tre needs to feel the heat.

Sutter teams see players that have each others’ backs and from the top down you see they hate to lose.
Hartley had a team well conditioned and playing fast and got the most out of several players.

Peters... well, Peters is Tre’s guy and the team right now hasn’t exemplified the characteristics of the above the past few games.

[Toonage]

^ And that could very well happen this off season. We'll just have to see how this season plays out.