Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Justin

The time to trade Bennett is now. It's at the point now where if he regresses anymore than his value falls to unrecoverable levels and he'd end up being waived.

As a straight up trade I imagine he'd fetch an early 3rd round pick. Package him for an early 2nd +.

Bennett's a Chris Bourque type guy. Exceptional AHL player but can't produce at the NHL level.

Chris Bourque stats: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=78707

Bahahahahahaha....terrible

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

This is assuming the only means of assessing his play is point production. But it's not. Ferland didn't produce much away from the top line, but his play still got him promoted to the top line where he was able to produce. The opposite seemed to have happened with Bennett.

Even this season, started on the fourth line. Had an opportunity on the third line, had a good game despite not making the scoresheet. Gets to play again on the third line with a better player in Neal. If he has another good game, he'll stay on the third line and when he strings a couple together and an opportunity presents itself, he may even see some top six minutes. But if he sucks, he'll be pushed to the fourth line where people will argue that's why he's not producing.

Again, Flames management had every incentive to want Bennett to flourish. There's no ulterior motive at this point of trying to ruin his NHL career. He played where they thought he should have played. It was up to him to prove them wrong and he had, up until now, failed to do so.

Ferland was a right winger on a team on which the next best option for part of the season was Brouwer. Of course he moved up the lineup. Bennett had the misfortune of sitting behind Gaudreau and Tkachuk, so there was no chance of him moving up.

[Love]

Brayden Schenn 2.0

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

That is true, Jagr was one of the better linemates Jankowski and Bennett had. If only he could stay healthy, they probably would’ve been effective the whole season.

The thing is, Bennett has shown some flashes of being something better than a forgettable bottom 6 player. He has very raw skills and that need refining. One day he could be a 20 goal, pitbull of a player which is why management probably hasn’t traded him yet. But other times he’ll take a ton of bad penalties, look invisible and everyone is left disappointed.

At some point I hope he can shake off the 4th overall tag because I think it weighs on him a lot. If he can play a disciplined game along with an honest effort every night, he can be a very effective player that a lot of teams will want. But I worry that the pride of being such a high pick will be the reason he wants out to start fresh somewhere else.

I agree with the below, he has too much character to be too prideful and want a fresh start on a new team. I bet you he wants to succeed here more than anything in the world.

The organization has always supported him so I don't know why he would want to leave. We are building around a young group and he could be a big part of that, and I'm sure he knows that.

He still has some work to do but I honestly don't think he wants out of Calgary in any way. The door is wide open for young guys to expand their roles on the roster, just look at how many there are on the team already.

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I guarantee Bennett never misses a game due to a contract dispute. The guy has the right character, that’s for sure.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Every team whether Oilers who were bad for 10+ years or cup winning teams have underachieving or overpriced players that fans dislike. If Bennett improves or leaves there’ll be someone else. It was Brouwer last season. A lot of reasons to be underwhelmed by the Flames highest draft pick with high expectations. Not a shocker by fans reaction.

So, every player that doesn't live up to the hype of where they were drafted should be traded? That is exactly Oiler type thinking.

Is he underachieving for where he was drafted? sure, but he is still an NHLer and regardless of his draft position, if he can't be traded for an upgrade, then trading him is pointless and stupid.

I didn't want Bennett drafted by Calgary, even at the draft. But unless someone is willing to overpay to make the team better now, trading him would be one of the dumbest moves. Anyone who can actually watch Bennett play, removing where he was drafted from your head, can clearly see he contributes positively most nights.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I was just trying to look at this actually.

Last year the only other players to have 150+ Individual Scoring Chances, and 60+ individual high danger chances, and score 10 goals or less at Even Strength were:

- Brock Mcginn (CAR)
- Tomas Hertl (SJ)
- Michael Backlund (CAL)
- Alex Tuch (VGK)

The average ES Goals for players that averaged between 150-180 Individual Scoring Chances, and 60-90 Individual High Danger Chances was 17 - or 7 more goals than Bennett was able to put up last season.

So Bennett in 17/18 had a Scoring Chance / High Danger Scoring Chance / Goal slash of 164/76/10 (as mentioned only 4 others were similar last year).

I was curious about past years, so I decided to look at the same criteria for the 3 seasons prior to 17/18 too, and wanted to see how players with who met the same criteria as Bennett last season fared the following season.

16/17
- MacKinnon 174/64/10 > 213/74/24
- Hall 172/66/8 > 197/96/20

15/16
- Kadri 197/75/9 > 185/77/16
- Staal 187/75/10 > 148/67/18
- Carter 161/68/9 > 149/61/15
- MacKinnon 159/55/10 > 174/64/10

14/15
- Hertl 168/97/10 > 189/118/17

Every player that did what Bennett did last season improved their ES goal toal by at least 6 goals the following year. The only outlier was Mackinnon having back to back bad shooting years in 15/16 & 16/17 but then exploding to 24 goals (14 goal improvement!) in 17/18.

So I think trading Bennett right now would be a mistake because if he can maintain the scoring chance numbers that he's had in the 1st and 3rd years of his career then the goals will come eventually.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

So Bennett in 17/18 had a Scoring Chance / High Danger Scoring Chance / Goal slash of 164/76/10 (as mentioned only 4 others were similar last year).

I was curious about past years, so I decided to look at the same criteria for the 3 seasons prior to 17/18 too, and wanted to see how players with who met the same criteria as Bennett last season fared the following season.

16/17
- MacKinnon 174/64/10 > 213/74/24
- Hall 172/66/8 > 197/96/20

15/16
- Kadri 197/75/9 > 185/77/16
- Staal 187/75/10 > 148/67/18
- Carter 161/68/9 > 149/61/15
- MacKinnon 159/55/10 > 174/64/10

14/15
- Hertl 168/97/10 > 189/118/17

Every player that did what Bennett did last season improved their ES goal toal by at least 6 goals the following year. The only outlier was Mackinnon having back to back bad shooting years in 15/16 & 16/17 but then exploding to 24 goals (14 goal improvement!) in 17/18.

So I think trading Bennett right now would be a mistake because if he can maintain the scoring chance numbers that he's had in the 1st and 3rd years of his career then the goals will come eventually.

Also telling is how a lot of those guys kept their head above water thanks to PP performance, often first unit.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Also telling is how a lot of those guys kept their head above water thanks to PP performance, often first unit.

Yeah - that's a big thing here too. Bennett is also likely the only guy who put up a lot of those number on a 3rd line with two unproven linemates.

Give the guy more ice time with skilled players, and I think we will see more of what we saw from him last night.

[Bunk]

If there are professional scouts on him right now, they might like what they see. Who knows. It would not shock me at all if he were traded. But I'd also like to see where this glimmer of hope of better play goes.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bunk

If there are professional scouts on him right now, they might like what they see. Who knows. It would not shock me at all if he were traded. But I'd also like to see where this glimmer of hope of better play goes.

It would be foolish to trade him now in my opinion.

Early indications are that Brodie and Bennett just needed to get the hell away from Gulutzan and how Gulutzan used lines/pairings.

He was a horrible coach.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It would be foolish to trade him now in my opinion.

Early indications are that Brodie and Bennett just needed to get the hell away from Gulutzan and how Gulutzan used lines/pairings.

He was a horrible coach.

I still don’t buy it’s Gulutzan for Bennett. Excuses, excuses. He started last season on 15 game pointless streak then ends season with injuries to top players and chance to prove himself with 13 game pointless streak. Why would GG play him in top 6?

This season he starts first 2 games on 4th line and around 9 mins/game. With less opportunity than last season he (not Peters) earns 3rd line ice team and has looked good so far. He’s made most of chance not coach.

[TheScorpion]

Do you think Montreal would do a deal revolving around Bennett and Drouin?

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Do you think Montreal would do a deal revolving around Bennett and Drouin?

I don’t think they can take on his $5.5M salary and have good forward depth. Bennett needs to be part of deal for a goalie or for another underachiever.

[TheIronMaiden]

The only reason Bennett would get traded is because the Flames do not have contract control. Otherwise trading a roster player makes no sense at all.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Do you think Montreal would do a deal revolving around Bennett and Drouin?

To who’s benefit????

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by pepper24

I still don’t buy it’s Gulutzan for Bennett. Excuses, excuses. He started last season on 15 game pointless streak then ends season with injuries to top players and chance to prove himself with 13 game pointless streak. Why would GG play him in top 6?

This season he starts first 2 games on 4th line and around 9 mins/game. With less opportunity than last season he (not Peters) earns 3rd line ice team and has looked good so far. He’s made most of chance not coach.

Bennett spent 10% of his even strength ice time with Gaudreau, and got 2 points. Hard to make a case for more ice time with better talent with those results.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by pepper24

I still don’t buy it’s Gulutzan for Bennett. Excuses, excuses. He started last season on 15 game pointless streak then ends season with injuries to top players and chance to prove himself with 13 game pointless streak. Why would GG play him in top 6?

This season he starts first 2 games on 4th line and around 9 mins/game. With less opportunity than last season he (not Peters) earns 3rd line ice team and has looked good so far. He’s made most of chance not coach.

At some point when good players go on cold streaks it is the coaches responsibility to shake things up to help that player find a groove. Granted GG had nothing to work with in the bottom six, all the same, when something isnt working and it clearly wasn't for Bennett, it is up to the coach to help that player find solutions.

Tough love only works in deep rosters, good coaches get more out of less.

[Travis Munroe]

So Bennett scores 2 goals in the last 2 games and is robbed of these goals by referee error. How different of a tune are many singing had the refs not blown the whistle early on both goals?

The check the stats in the morning test is playing much different than the actual eye test. He is playing very good this year and it is only a matter of time before he busts out of the slump. All it will take is some confidence. He is in his early 20's, hears trade talks, knows he underperformed, knows he isn't living up to his draft hype and on top of all that, has 2 goals taken from him... that can't be easy for a young guy but once the swagger is back, watch out!!!

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Do you think Montreal would do a deal revolving around Bennett and Drouin?

It would have to happen now for it to make sense.

[EVERLAST]