Does Dube make the team?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't know if Dube and Hathaway are in competition with each other.

They bring different elements to the game.

If you're Jankowski or Bennett I think there has to be some concern about your spot on the roster in the weeks/months/years to come.

What sort of concern do you imagine? Do you think either Jankowski or Bennett are in danger of not making the team, or of being dispatched to the AHL or another team?

I think Bennett has been one of the best forwards in each of the preseason games he has appeared this year. He has looked very solid to me.

[JohnnyTitan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't know if Dube and Hathaway are in competition with each other.

They bring different elements to the game.

If you're Jankowski or Bennett I think there has to be some concern about your spot on the roster in the weeks/months/years to come.

Because Jankowski is a 6"4 Centerman who scored 17 goals in his rookie season, plays a 200 foot game and is cost-controlled ($1.7M) asset for the next two years before going RFA?

Because Bennett is a (just turned) 22 year old who plays with an edge, is becoming the team's best PKer and shows flashes of speed / talent on the offensive side?

I don't think those guys are looking over the shoulder at Hathaway. I hope they're super-motivated and I hope they keep improving but I shudder to think that Hathaway is the reason either of them is moved.

There is room for Dube. And plenty of room for Janko and Bennett IMO.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What sort of concern do you imagine? Do you think either Jankowski or Bennett are in danger of not making the team, or of being dispatched to the AHL or another team?

I think Bennett has been one of the best forwards in each of the preseason games he has appeared this year. He has looked very solid to me.

Both of them should be concerned about not earning a spot and potentially being moved.

I think Jankowski has more value than Bennett but because he's a centre, may be directly competing with Dube.

If Dube earns a spot that might mean Jankowski's time with the team is limited by virtue of him being a higher value return asset than Bennett.

There are 4 or 5 guys pushing for those spots and we've seen the coaching staff utilize bennett and janko pretty much exclusively on the fourth line. If there are spots to be had, they are currently occupied by those two and if the team thinks they can get either more offense or more dependability/consistency from new players compared to those two, I would really not be surprised to see one or both of them moved.

If Dube or Foo show chemistry and produce offense, in the next couple of games, that may more or less spell the end for one of Janko or Bennett in Flames colours.

[savardandjokinen]

Poor Janko has a 17 goal rookie season and now we’re thinking about replacing him!

[robbie111]

I hope Jankowski would be given a chance on the first line with Gaudreau and Monahan. He scored 4 goals in the only game he got to play with Gaudreau and made a sweet pass to Monahan for his breakaway goal this preseason. You could then move Lindholm to center one of the lines and still have Dube play with the main squad to start the year.

[GranteedEV]

Imagine thinking management would sooner replace Bennett and Jankowski just as they enter their prime before moving out guys like Frolik, Ryan, and Neal who are on the verge of decline.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What sort of concern do you imagine? Do you think either Jankowski or Bennett are in danger of not making the team, or of being dispatched to the AHL or another team?

I think Bennett has been one of the best forwards in each of the preseason games he has appeared this year. He has looked very solid to me.

I'd say I didn't like Bennett against Vancouver, but that would have been true of every veteran but Tkachuk and Backlund.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by robbie111

I hope Jankowski would be given a chance on the first line with Gaudreau and Monahan. He scored 4 goals in the only game he got to play with Gaudreau and made a sweet pass to Monahan for his breakaway goal this preseason. You could then move Lindholm to center one of the lines and still have Dube play with the main squad to start the year.

Every single post that strays a little off of the consensus lines absolutely still works.

It doesn't need to be a written-in-stone line for it to be effective. But if Peters likes that line and decides to go to it every now and then, or stick to it for a period if it's working... sure! It definitely fits with Peter's pairings talk.

I'm super excited for the season to start.

[JohnnyTitan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If Dube or Foo show chemistry and produce offense, in the next couple of games, that may more or less spell the end for one of Janko or Bennett in Flames colours.

You realize Foo is 2 years older than Bennett and 3 months older than Jankowski, right?

What were they doing last year? Foo was fizzling for half a season in the AHL while the younger guys were earning their stripes in the NHL.

Foo is not a replacement for those guys. Foo is depth, likely with the upside Jankowski and Bennett have already shown at a younger age.

[JohnnyTitan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

we've seen the coaching staff utilize bennett and janko pretty much exclusively on the fourth line.

But but but...if they were on the Oilers they'd be 2nd liners!

[Gaskal]

Dube is versatile enough to play up and down the lineup (I believe he captained for Team Canada in such a depth role) and at all three forward positions, and you are shoehorning him in as a center just to force out a 17-goal rookie C?

Sam Bennett and Jankowski, while not scoring so far, have otherwise looked good during the preseason. And the Flames let either one go for not scoring over Dube/Foo in the next couple of pointless preseason games... why?

[Enoch Root]

None of Dube, Mangiapane, Lazar, Klimchuk, Foo, or Hathaway has shown to be better than either Jankowski or Bennett.

Full stop.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I think the eye test is dangerous because no one’s memory is perfect and even what is captured is just a fraction of the game. More importantly, everyone knows the problems associated with confirmation bias. Now, the only seeing part of the game and confirmation bias issues are found with stats too, but at least someone who uses stats isn’t giving a strongly worded generalization without any evidence whatsoever (my personal pet peeve).

With stats, I think the strength of the inference you can draw from them directly relates to sample size, contextualization (OZS%, line mates and opposition) and the trustworthiness it the source. I generally assume the trustworthiness of the source because I don’t know how to figure out who’s counting shot attempts, scoring chances, etc. and then figure out the other two variables.


But stats are not mysterious numbers that mean something only statistician’s can figure out. Hockey stats like CF, FF, SCF, HDSC, etc. are the results of counting. They are important to me because they are an indirect way of showing possession in the offensive zone.


One major issue with them is they don’t fully account for how goals are scored (i.e. the royal road and other puck movements likely to result in goals).


Anyways, that’s my perspective on the issue of how to evaluate players. Really, I think you take into account all the types of evidence you have at your disposal in the context of their individual strengths and weaknesses.

Video. Coaches watch it all day.

[Split98]

Guys, just imagine Bennett in the AHL - and fighting for his NHL career. How many games before it's clear he needs a call-up?

As much as Bennett hasn't shown an awful lot in the NHL, for guys to take his roster spot they'd have to out-produce him at the same level.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't know if Dube and Hathaway are in competition with each other.

They bring different elements to the game.

If you're Jankowski or Bennett I think there has to be some concern about your spot on the roster in the weeks/months/years to come.

No way... They are getting 3 shorties each this year, remember?

I actually think they are going to do well this year, even if they are slotted on the 4th line. Especially if you see Dube ridding shotgun on that line. Other teams wont be able to use their shutdown lines on all 4 forward groups, So I think they are going to see some pretty interesting mismatches. If Peters is going to roll 4 lines, and they see around 15 mins a game, I think the counting stats from those 3 would be fairly close to last year's 3M line, maybe 90-100 points range, which would be GREAT from your "fourth line".

I love the idea of Tkachuk-Backlund-Czarnik. They seemed to have good chemistry on that first goal on Saturday, tape to tape passes with no hesitation. Unfortunately, that moves Neal or Lindholm to the 3rd line, which is a good problem to have, but will probably be less then what they were offered when they signed their contracts here.

Also, for all the talk on this thread about Dube's scoring chance differential so far in preseason, having a guy that has offensive game breaking talent and speed playing on your 4th line is a recipe for success, even if the defensive coverage needs some work. Backlund's line is still going to be the main shutdown line, and that means either Frolik-Ryan-Lindholm, or more likely (to spread around right handed draw men) Frolik-Ryan-Neal being your 2nd shutdown type line. Either way, the 4th line becomes an energy/scoring line, and that is going to be hard for the opposition to game plan for.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Split98

Guys, just imagine Bennett in the AHL - and fighting for his NHL career.

How about this. Imagine trading Jankowski for a 2nd round pick so that we could develop that player for the next 3 or 4 years. That player might even get 17 goals in their rookie season...

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Video. Coaches watch it all day.

I wasn't talking about coaches, more about fans.

Either way, memory still matters because people interpret what they see in the present by reference to a player's reputation, what they've seen in the past. So video doesn't negate the need to ensure your memory is as accurate as possibly through many eye tests and detailed statistical analysis.

I don't think you'd disagree with that.

[dammage79]

Bennett and Janko have been given some important responsibility this pre-season and have looked great with what they have been given. They're not looking over their shoulders. Nor should they.

Even if Bennett does not meet the lofty offensive expectations of being a #4 OA pick, He looks to be rounding into something very important defensively along with Janko who was already there IMO.

And I honestly do believe if they slot a guy in with some finish on their wing. the offense will come. Hathaway for all his hard work and grit has zero finish. If we want offense from those two young players, give them something to work with. I like that pairing a bunch and they're going to be given a lot of responsibility this year.

[Drunk Uncle]

I am firmly in the camp that believes Dube should make the team as a winger. I don't think Dube has developed enough to steal a center spot from any of our current centers.

However, in every game and every practice to date, Dube has been at center. If the Flames are dead set on developing Dube at center, I don't think Dube makes the team. If they are ok with him at wing for a bit, then he does.

Based on his usage to date I don't think he makes the team even though I think he should.

Edit: And right after I post this, I see he is playing wing tonight. There's still hope!

[Monahan For Mayor]

I really don't see this selke caliber play that some people see in Bennett. Yes he continues to improve his defensive game and it is pretty solid, but I think it gets over rated by some posters. On the other hand the guy can't produce any offence. The last two seasons he has been bad offensively and so far this pre season is struggling to produce again. In saying this I really don't think it's out of realm to see a guy like Dube outplay him. I think Dube is a better offensive player today, Bennett has a better defensive game. If I had to put money on which on can improve their weakness it would be Dube. Dube oozes hockey iq and just keeps getting better. I really don't think it's far fetched to think a guy like Dube could push Bennett down the depth chart.