Blair breaks with Multiculturalism

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

If Harper wants to drop multiculturalism, perhaps we can drop him off in some other country....

I never knew Jack Layton visied CP - hello JL - hows life in the perpetual doldrums of 3rd place?

If you are going to insinuate that Harper has indicated he wants to drop multiculturalism, please post a link to a source (www.ndp.com doesnt count) as source) which indicates he has said this.

Classic.

MYK

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

At this point, you're right. I wonder how public opinion would have changed, though, if the 17 conspirators in Toronto had been successful in blowing up whatever it was that they were planning to do?

Does anyone think Canada is likely to experience an event like London did?

Hopefully that never happens.

I see your point though...a terrorist attack could change public opinion pretty quickly.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by HOZ

As for Multiculturalism...its' time had come and gone. It had noble ideals of bringing everyone closer while respecting our differences. Unfortunately that is not what it as done. It has created gated communities and government programs weighted in favour of ethnic minorities instead of being used for the greater good of all.

Actually I think it has worked..its not perfect, but Canada is a great example of how people of all backgrounds can come together and function relatively peacfully in a society. I see fantastic examples of multiculturalism every single day. Yeah, there are also examples of gated communities, racism, ethnic tension. But there are lots of people making things work. It takes effort, on every side, but it works. Try telling me and my co-workers, variety of friends of different backgrounds throughout school, that it doesn't work. Maybe its not working for you because you're not making the effort. But I really believe in Canada and our concept of multiculturalism..its been the basis of a wonderful life for me and my family, and I've been exposed to amazing people and amazing experiences because of it. It truly is an enriching approach to society when we can pull it off. Cynics like you **** me off because rather than making an effort to make things work, you'll sit on the sidelines, point your finger at some of the problems, and claim that is just isn't working. Well it works...and for every example of segregation that I see, i'd rather double my efforts to make combat it. The concept works..its the people who choose to live by it or not.

Attitudes like yours work only to bring the country down, not change it for the better.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Actually I think it has worked..its not perfect, but Canada is a great example of how people of all backgrounds can come together and function relatively peacfully in a society. I see fantastic examples of multiculturalism every single day. Yeah, there are also examples of gated communities, racism, ethnic tension. But there are lots of people making things work. It takes effort, on every side, but it works. Try telling me and my co-workers, variety of friends of different backgrounds throughout school, that it doesn't work. Maybe its not working for you because you're not making the effort. But I really believe in Canada and our concept of multiculturalism..its been the basis of a wonderful life for me and my family, and I've been exposed to amazing people and amazing experiences because of it. It truly is an enriching approach to society when we can pull it off. Cynics like you **** me off because rather than making an effort to make things work, you'll sit on the sidelines, point your finger at some of the problems, and claim that is just isn't working. Well it works...and for every example of segregation that I see, i'd rather double my efforts to make combat it. The concept works..its the people who choose to live by it or not.

Attitudes like yours work only to bring the country down, not change it for the better.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't think so.

I went to school with Blackfoot children....many of those do not 'choose' to speak their own tongue.

In other words they don't want to learn it.

Yes probably because they think it's a dead end language and may even be ashamed of it to fit in. And what caused it to be that way? One culture imprinting on another.
I'm just saying there's a lot of pepole here taking some moral high ground that "they" should fit in when history is rife with those that haven't but because currently their wasp heritage is on top that's seems ok. Just pointing out the hypocrisy. I do agree with a lot of what's being said in fact.

[ah123]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Actually I think it has worked..its not perfect, but Canada is a great example of how people of all backgrounds can come together and function relatively peacfully in a society.

Completely agree. Canada is an amazing place to live for that reason...I grew up in Europe and I have to wonder if the attitude there causes part of the problem of segregation...

Canada is an amazing place to live, esp because how people of different ethnicities can come together and build for the future...

This is probably why Canada is getting the new global centre for pluralism

http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/default.asp...0418_463_e.htm


Quote from a speech made two years ago by HH the Aga Khan (founder of the AKDN)

Canada has an experience of governance of which much of the world stands in dire need. It is a world of increasing dissension and conflict in which a significant contribution is the failure of different ethnic, tribal, religious, or social groups to search for, and agree upon, a common space for harmonious co-existence.

http://www.akdn.org/speeches/20_ottawa190504.htm

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Yes probably because they think it's a dead end language and may even be ashamed of it to fit in. And what caused it to be that way? One culture imprinting on another.

Huh? They have a choice to learn it or not...there are many elders amongst the Blackfoot people who would be only to willing to pass on an important aspect of their culture.

Rather...the newer generation couldn't give two #####s about where they come from...because really, why should they? I'm sure all of us would feel the same way if we grew up on a Native reserve.

I guess that sorta ties into what you're saying though...as those reserves are partly the governments fault.

I'm just saying there's a lot of pepole here taking some moral high ground that "they" should fit in when history is rife with those that haven't but because currently their wasp heritage is on top that's seems ok. Just pointing out the hypocrisy. I do agree with a lot of what's being said in fact.

Yep.

You make some good points too.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Attitudes like yours work only to bring the country down, not change it for the better.

I don't want to interupt your PC "Joy to the world and to all the boys and girls" coloured world.

But did I mention that I am part of a worldwide conspiracy to take over the world? It can be plainly seen by everything I have typed in this thread that I am working all out for the degredation of all the triumphs of Muliticulturalism to bring back segregation.

Thus when I say that communities are strengthened when people share commonalities and not differences: its code for concentration camps.

Common good for all: Let loose the dogs of genocide!

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by HOZ

I don't want to interupt your PC "Joy to the world and to all the boys and girls" coloured world.

But did I mention that I am part of a worldwide conspiracy to take over the world? It can be plainly seen by everything I have typed in this thread that I am working all out for the degredation of all the triumphs of Muliticulturalism to bring back segregation.

Thus when I say that communities are strengthened when people share commonalities and not differences: its code for concentration camps.

Common good for all: Let loose the dogs of genocide!

I don't really see your point. People already share commonalities..people generally want the same things, a safe society to raise their children, opportunity, health, etc. In fact, no culture doesn't want these things. So what are these cultural "differences" that are so extreme that they hurt our society? The food we eat? The clothes we wear? Is someone wearing a turban going to undermine our culture? Is the traditional way that different cultures perform marriages going to affect the fabric of our culture?

According to you multiculturalism doesn't work..so I'm assuming that means we all need to shed our differences and become a singular people, with a singular vision of what Canadian culture is. Who gets to decide what that vision is? You? The Asian population? The First Nations?

Fact is the cultural differences we have are primarily aesthetic differences. Now if you're talkng about muslims wanting to practice muslim law in Canadian courts, I agree, that shouldn't be allowed. But I don't consider that a flaw of multiculturalism, I consider that part of keeping our legal system and religion separate. I'd feel the same way if it was fundamental christians attempting to influence our legal system, which happens all the time as well.

Canada's definition of multiculturalism has worked, compared with the rest of the world. I don't think any country has pulled it off quite as well as us. Are we perfect? No..but we are dealing with our differences a hell of a lot better than any other example I can think of.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I don't really see your point. People already share commonalities..people generally want the same things, a safe society to raise their children, opportunity, health, etc. In fact, no culture doesn't want these things. So what are these cultural "differences" that are so extreme that they hurt our society? The food we eat? The clothes we wear? Is someone wearing a turban going to undermine our culture? Is the traditional way that different cultures perform marriages going to affect the fabric of our culture?

According to you multiculturalism doesn't work..so I'm assuming that means we all need to shed our differences and become a singular people, with a singular vision of what Canadian culture is. Who gets to decide what that vision is? You? The Asian population? The First Nations?

Fact is the cultural differences we have are primarily aesthetic differences. Now if you're talkng about muslims wanting to practice muslim law in Canadian courts, I agree, that shouldn't be allowed. But I don't consider that a flaw of multiculturalism, I consider that part of keeping our legal system and religion separate. I'd feel the same way if it was fundamental christians attempting to influence our legal system, which happens all the time as well.

Canada's definition of multiculturalism has worked, compared with the rest of the world. I don't think any country has pulled it off quite as well as us. Are we perfect? No..but we are dealing with our differences a hell of a lot better than any other example I can think of.

I didn't say it doesn't work. It worked too well. Now we are all "separate but equal" in cultural ghettos. 30 years ago Canada's model was of pluralism: people of different sorts maintaining independent cultural traditions, but living side by side in an integrated society. No reasonable person opposes the right of immigrants to respect their homeland cultures and retain aspects of their pre-Canada lives. Multiculturalism unfortunately has become a way of putting people in narrow categories. The (pick your country, region, religion) - Canadian. Some groups have decided to live in ghettos of their own making, apart from the rest of us.
While living apart temporarily often is a necessary part of the immigration process, if only because of language, ( I know, I deal with it everyday) those who see cultural isolation as a permanent way of life tend to cripple their own possibilities, limit their ability to contribute to Canada, and create impregnable communities in which they can swim in their imported grievances. I know that as well as I was once a volunteer at the quinticential Multiculti-lovefest....Heritage Days in Edmonton (Not sure if there is one of these in Calgary or not). All the pettiness, racism, the "don't let these people in or we'll walk", the "We don't want to be beside these people", having to keep two groups apart to prevent violence, the farce that people were actually sharing other's cultures.....made me want to puke.

The official policy of multiculturalism has produced young (hyphenated) Canadians that neither understand or care for our institutions.

It has made it ok to be prejudgist, racist and bigotted towards one group. WHITE (and male).

It has chipped away at the values and principles of Canada. Those values and priciples that made people want to come here in the first place. These principles and values are what differentiate us from those place that no one in their right mind would migrate to.

So multiculturalism in it's present form needs to be re-thought.

[MagicallyAdept]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yep.

Canada is know for its friendly attitude towards other cultures. My grade 12 year, we had 2 students from Romania join us.

Both of them and their families moved over because of Canada's acceptance to their culture...not that its any different from ours...and also because of the jobs in Alberta.

Blair has a good point...but you still have to give people the freedom to practice their own culture...within the confines of being equal.

That also means those same people who are given that right, must adhere to Canadian laws...and Canadian society.

Meaning Canada does not have to accept Sharia law for the Islamic fundies that are pushing for it.

But the problem is that IT IS NOT EQUAL over here.

Christians cannot wear a crucifix becuase it might offend a minority group yet muslim women can wear a burkha with full face covering because it might offend them if we told them otherwise. One muslim man was caught speeding the other day but he got away with it because he said he couldnt read the road signs. How is that a sign of one nation uner one rule. English people are being persecuted for being English and treated like second class citizens while our culture and society are being eaten away by a bunch of idiots who dont want to offend people - some of which don't want to embrace our culture.

Christmas is pretty much banned over here because it might offend someone. I am serious. Towns have been forced to remove decorations (although for other faiths the decorations were celbrated) cards cannot say "Merry Christmas", 'Happy Holidays' or 'Seasons Greetings' is preferred. It is total utter bollocks and is another case of this country going down the toilet quicker than you can say 'New Labour'. My favourite one was having a picture of reindeers pulling a sleigh - this was deemed inappropriate as it should have been a mix of different animals representing different faiths!!! Also the three wise men had to be 2 wise men and a wise woman in order to avoid sexism. The government are so concerned with someone being upset by seeing something that they are changing everything we know. It is just so sad that this once great country is now forcing 1 in 10 people to leave. There will be nothing left to save if it continues. I hate it.

Blair is a complete liar and nothing he says should ever be believed because we have all seen his track record.

[MagicallyAdept]

Originally Posted by HOZ

It has made it ok to be prejudgist, racist and bigotted towards one group. WHITE (and male).

True.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by HOZ

It has made it ok to be prejudgist, racist and bigotted towards one group. WHITE (and male).

It has chipped away at the values and principles of Canada. Those values and priciples that made people want to come here in the first place. These principles and values are what differentiate us from those place that no one in their right mind would migrate to.

So multiculturalism in it's present form needs to be re-thought.

Okay, you actually made some half decent points until this. White males, as you put it, still have a huge advantage on minorities in this country. You are simply put, a whiner. Does it scare you to see a minority doing well? Does it scare you that your race might not be as dominant as it once was? Well, work harder..you don't deserve everything handed to you on a silver platter because traditionally you have been the majority in the country. Many immigrants come here, and fight through having little to no money, working crap jobs, and major culture shock to still succeed and make something of their lives because they work hard. Then guys like you claim its because the system is against white males??? Is that some kind of freakin' joke?

And what are the values and principles that have been chipped away? The values and freedoms of the white male? Well there are other people here now and you better get used to it. Just because some other races are coming into influence doesn't threaten your existence..what a childish bratty way to look at the country.

As a white male you have absolutely no excuse to be whining, you are by far still the majority and have the majority of the opportunities in Canada. If you can't make the most of it, that's your problem, not the problem of multiculturalism.

You veil your argument with ideals about "common goals" and then you drop the absurd bombshell about the system being against white males. That shows me one thing, you are okay with minorities being here as long as they remain minorities and have little say in how the country operates. Well tough luck buddy, better go hide in a corner somewhere before the evil minorities come and destroy your race.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by MagicallyAdept

But the problem is that IT IS NOT EQUAL over here.

Christians cannot wear a crucifix

Are you talking about Britain or Canada? Because I can wear a crucifix here in Canada...or any other religious symbol and not have to worry about discrimination.

[MagicallyAdept]

Originally Posted by Azure

Are you talking about Britain or Canada? Because I can wear a crucifix here in Canada...or any other religious symbol and not have to worry about discrimination.

I was talking about over here in Britain. Some schools and offices have banned the wearing of religious symbols. Which is not right but at least it would be equal across all faiths. The problem lies in the fact that only the Christians have been told not to wear their crucifx so other people can see it. Other faiths seem to be allowed to. That's my problem with all this.

[MagicallyAdept]

Originally Posted by Igottago

You veil your argument with ideals about "common goals" and then you drop the absurd bombshell about the system being against white males. That shows me one thing, you are okay with minorities being here as long as they remain minorities and have little say in how the country operates. Well tough luck buddy, better go hide in a corner somewhere before the evil minorities come and destroy your race.

I don't think he meant this. Granted i haven't read all of the posts but i don't think he wants minorty groups to not have a say in what happens to Canada. I for one treat everyone equal and that inlcudes people like me, an able-bodied, straight, white, middle-class male. sometimes (here in the UK at least) someone who is not from one of these groups will get a different treatment that a majority person will get. I just want everyone to be equal no matter what. I am not better than anyone else but they are not better than me also, thats what can annoy me. Its ok to have a gay only bar but not a straight only bar? Its ok to have a radio station dedicated to black music but not to white music? its ok to have an asian community centre but not an English community centre. All these things and more are making the steps of integrating all groups harder because it is telling the peoples that you are not part of one group (the country) but part of smaller groups. I know that there maybe preferential treatment for white Canadians when it comes to some aspects like jobs and that should also be changed.

In this case the celebrating of Christmas is not just for the religion of Christians, it is a cultural and historical part of Canada and that includes, decorations, trees, reindeers, the stories, nativity plays and all else that goes with it. By changing it, no matter how slightly we are taking away part of the country that has made Canada. Adding to it with other religious festivals and celebrations is so great but taking away parts of longer standing ones is not the way to go.

Over here, most of the peoples of other ethnic backgrounds and religions love Christmas and do not want any part of it to change. They respect that is part of our culture and history but all it takes is one person to get 'offended' by the 3 wise MEN and boom everyone is wondering what they can omit from Christmas in order to not offend anyone else. That is what is wrong.

Sorry for the rant but it really annoys me when any culture/race/sex/etc is treated unfairly.

Love to you all - well apart from Oiler fans... (that was a joke)

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Okay, you actually made some half decent points until this. White males, as you put it, still have a huge advantage on minorities in this country. You are simply put, a whiner. Does it scare you to see a minority doing well? Does it scare you that your race might not be as dominant as it once was? Well, work harder..you don't deserve everything handed to you on a silver platter because traditionally you have been the majority in the country. Many immigrants come here, and fight through having little to no money, working crap jobs, and major culture shock to still succeed and make something of their lives because they work hard. Then guys like you claim its because the system is against white males??? Is that some kind of freakin' joke?

And what are the values and principles that have been chipped away? The values and freedoms of the white male? Well there are other people here now and you better get used to it. Just because some other races are coming into influence doesn't threaten your existence..what a childish bratty way to look at the country.

As a white male you have absolutely no excuse to be whining, you are by far still the majority and have the majority of the opportunities in Canada. If you can't make the most of it, that's your problem, not the problem of multiculturalism.

You veil your argument with ideals about "common goals" and then you drop the absurd bombshell about the system being against white males. That shows me one thing, you are okay with minorities being here as long as they remain minorities and have little say in how the country operates. Well tough luck buddy, better go hide in a corner somewhere before the evil minorities come and destroy your race.

Ummm.....

You know, had you followed this thread a little closer( and actually read what I have typed) you would realise how absurd this rant really is. I'll let you go back through this thread and find out yourself.

Obviously the point I have been trying to make has been lost on you. To you, since I am against multiculturalism in its' present form, make me a bigot.

I'll try once more....
Multiculturalism's ideals was to do away with discrimination (a word I forgot to include before), prejudice, bigotry and racism toward others. To keep minority cultures within Canada safe from being lost or overwhelmed.

Well it has gone well beyond that and in a hypocritical way allowed it to be OK to discriminate against one and only one group. It's ok to have your (fill in non-white minority) groups/radios station/conferences/bars/clubs. But DO NOT EVER type in White into the brackets.

It hasn't brought us closer together. We have become segregated and Balkinized.

Just ask Rae during the Liberal Leadership convention. The party that has played one ethnic group against another for decades......

Don't vote for the JOOOOOS!!!

Wasn't Multiculturalism suppose to stop that sort of thing? From the party that lives and dies on Multiculturalism???


Anyways, I will let you go through the thread and find out why your "HOZ is an Aryan nation knuckle dragger" rant is so laughable.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Ummm.....

You know, had you followed this thread a little closer( and actually read what I have typed) you would realise how absurd this rant really is. I'll let you go back through this thread and find out yourself.

Obviously the point I have been trying to make has been lost on you. To you, since I am against multiculturalism in its' present form, make me a bigot.

I'll try once more....
Multiculturalism's ideals was to do away with discrimination (a word I forgot to include before), prejudice, bigotry and racism toward others. To keep minority cultures within Canada safe from being lost or overwhelmed.

Well it has gone well beyond that and in a hypocritical way allowed it to be OK to discriminate against one and only one group. It's ok to have your (fill in non-white minority) groups/radios station/conferences/bars/clubs. But DO NOT EVER type in White into the brackets.

It hasn't brought us closer together. We have become segregated and Balkinized.

Just ask Rae during the Liberal Leadership convention. The party that has played one ethnic group against another for decades......

Don't vote for the JOOOOOS!!!

Wasn't Multiculturalism suppose to stop that sort of thing? From the party that lives and dies on Multiculturalism???


Anyways, I will let you go through the thread and find out why your "HOZ is an Aryan nation knuckle dragger" rant is so laughable.

Hey, if the shoe fits..I can't say you're racist but you definitely seem to feel threatened by the advancement of minorities.

As for so called "white clubs" not being allowed, what do you call things like the Celtic Roots festival and the like? There are plenty of groups, events, radio shows, etc. dedicated to celebrating a more "white" type of culture or history. I don't know if you're simply choosing to ignore that or just haven't realized they are there because they are so bloody common.

That is in addition to the fact that the entire country is already primarily founded upon the customs and norms of "white" european culture. So I don't get how some students club made up of asians equates to white people being discriminated against.

And most of these cultural heritage groups are fairly inclusive...I've been to celtic heritage type festivals, i've been to chinese new years events, i've learned about different cultures by having friends belonging to those groups. I've seen "white" people attend the events of minorities and vica versa.

And in regards to article about Rae's wife, I'm not ignorant to the fact that racism still occurs, I know it does. I already stated that multiculturalism isn't a perfect system, there is no perfect system, some people will just refuse to open themselves up beyond their own prejudices. I am not going to take that article as some type of evidence that multiculturalism is entirely flawed and as evidence that, as a country, we are somehow more segregated.

There is a certain socio-political climate in the west (especially the US) that is teaching people to fear eachother, and I don't like it. If anything, I think Canadians need to reaffirm and keep building on our principles of multiculturalism to make sure we can combat those fears.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Hey, if the shoe fits..I can't say you're racist but you definitely seem to feel threatened by the advancement of minorities.

I really must be typing into a vacuum.

Have you read anything on this thread? You have seemed to have glossed over most of it and cherry picked the parts that allows you to smuggly stand on a mountain of goodness and look down your nose at my trailer trash self.

IF I am truly threatened by minority "advancement" then I am threatened by my own children's advancement.

I'll let you figure that one out.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by HOZ

I really must be typing into a vacuum.

Have you read anything on this thread? You have seemed to have glossed over most of it and cherry picked the parts that allows you to smuggly stand on a mountain of goodness and look down your nose at my trailer trash self.

IF I am truly threatened by minority "advancement" then I am threatened by my own children's advancement.

I'll let you figure that one out.

Okay, so I guess I really don't understand where you're coming from then. If your kids are minorities and they want to join a club that reflects their minority culture at school, are you going to say no?

And I'd like it if you actually respond to the points I made rather than just trying to disprove that you're racist. I never called you trailer trash, neo con conspirator, or anything like that. You came up with that all yourself. The only thing I actually called you was a whiner, which given the evidence you've presented me, I'd say is pretty accurate.

You haven't even bothered to debate my point about "white" clubs..i'm interested in how you'd refute that one.