Blair breaks with Multiculturalism

[HOZ]

Adopt our values or stay away, says Blair

Telegraph.
Tony Blair formally declared Britain's multicultural experiment over yesterday as he told immigrants they had ''a duty" to integrate with the mainstream of society.

Related articles in the same paper

Labour faces its' multicultural monster

That bit got lost somewhere along the way. ''No distinctive culture or religion supersedes our duty to be part of an integrated United Kingdom," Mr Blair said yesterday.
But that was not what his Government was saying in the late 1990s when many of the problems about which he spoke yesterday were taking root. Then, the view was that ethnic minority groups should be allowed to do what they like so long as they did not break the law. Perhaps Mr Blair had forgotten he was one of its most ardent proponents.
A few months after becoming Prime Minister, he said that the single most important thing for the nation was to embrace multi-culturalism, to recognise that "it's a good thing, not something to be frightened of".
The result was segregation and separation whose consequences were apparent in 2001, with riots in the North. An inquiry into their cause was appalled to find British people living ''parallel lives", with young ethnic minority people able to go through life exclusively in the company of their own kind.


Blair has seen the multi-culturalism light?
Multi-culturalism portrays itself as a means of celebration: in fact, it is an invitation to all minorities to complain, loudly and persistently, about their victimhood. And, when this self-pitying worldview comes into contact with religious fanaticism, the results can be – literally – explosive. That is presumably what Mr Blair means when he says that the events of July 7 last year threw the whole concept of multi-cultural Britain "into sharp relief".

Australia;
The GREAT Bikini Protest!!!!
SABRA LANE: March organiser, Christine Hawkins, describes herself as a Melbourne grandmother.

She says she was outraged by recent comments made by Sydney Sheikh Taj El Din Al Hilali, comparing scantily clad women to uncovered meat.

CHRISTINE HAWKINS: We're encouraging people to wear beachwear. The reason for that... we've called it the 'The Great Australian Bikini March' because it's got an interesting, iconic image for Australians that most Australians, you know, even from their childhoods remember summer holidays with great fondness, of going down to the beach, sitting in the sun, warm, swimming, lots of nice memories.



So how long until Canada follows Australia and now Britian and drop Multiculturalism? Do we need to?

[Caged Great]

If Harper wants to drop multiculturalism, perhaps we can drop him off in some other country....

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

If Harper wants to drop multiculturalism, perhaps we can drop him off in some other country....

Where has Harper said anything about that?

I'm sure even the dumbest Canadian realizes the political backlash that would cause.

[jzA]

People like Howard in australia and blair in england are my idols. Immigrants who come into this country I dont think should have the right to try to change all our values (aka singing oh canada). Right on him for doing this.

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by jzA

People like Howard in australia and blair in england are my idols. Immigrants who come into this country I dont think should have the right to try to change all our values (aka singing oh canada). Right on him for doing this.

Yup, completely agree. Too often it seems there are people that go to another country with no interest to take part in anything the country offers other than money.

[Ozy_Flame]

Unfortunately that sentiment is all too true. My best friend is Chinese, and was born here 23 years ago after his parents immigrated to Calgary shortly before that. While his father is an outgoing businessman who knows that integration with the community has many benefits for him and his family, his wife refuses to leave the house, has never done so other than for a few hours at a time, and as a result, cannot speak a word of English, our official language, after 25 YEARS of being a citizen. That's quite shocking to me, actually.

Down in New Zealand, I see it even more here. There are a ton of Asian students and young professionals who have no interest in taking part in the community. All they are out to do it seems is hang around within their own ethnic group, spend their parents money on nice things, and completely ignore what's beyond their own cultural understandings. I've tried numerous times to talk to them in my apartment complex on the elevator or whatever, and they just simply ignore me. Sheesh.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Australia;
The GREAT Bikini Protest!!!!
SABRA LANE: March organiser, Christine Hawkins, describes herself as a Melbourne grandmother.

She says she was outraged by recent comments made by Sydney Sheikh Taj El Din Al Hilali, comparing scantily clad women to uncovered meat.

CHRISTINE HAWKINS: We're encouraging people to wear beachwear. The reason for that... we've called it the 'The Great Australian Bikini March' because it's got an interesting, iconic image for Australians that most Australians, you know, even from their childhoods remember summer holidays with great fondness, of going down to the beach, sitting in the sun, warm, swimming, lots of nice memories.

I don't think that anyone there was protesting the islamic faith rather I can't help but think they were protesting these idiotic comments

If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred.

Now it could just be my morals speaking but something tells me that those comments are despicable on every level and having someone protest that - even if it is through a bikini march is allright in my books. No one there is saying don't practice the islamic faith, rather they are stating that the blame for rape as in the case of Bilal Skaf can not be placed at the feet of the women.

With regards to what Blair said - having been to England for a couple months, what he said wasn't popular but it is what everyone is feeling right now. There is a significant racial divide between different ethnic groups which is leading to an increased crime rate (look at the rate of stabbings for instance). Accomidations need to be made on both sides when it comes to racial divides people need to be more accepting of the immigrants culture while at the same time the immigrant needs to step out and be more accepting of the cultures of the land where they now live.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Unfortunately that sentiment is all too true. My best friend is Chinese, and was born here 23 years ago after his parents immigrated to Calgary shortly before that. While his father is an outgoing businessman who knows that integration with the community has many benefits for him and his family, his wife refuses to leave the house, has never done so other than for a few hours at a time, and as a result, cannot speak a word of English, our official language, after 25 YEARS of being a citizen. That's quite shocking to me, actually.

Most people that can't speak english are usually the older people, as learning a new language is harder the older you get, not to mention some people just don't have the linguistic knack for learning languages. Unfortunately there is also the mind set that "i'm too old to learn english now" My mom and dad run a store and my mom can speak better english then my dad by a fair margin with the same amount of time in North America.

The ethnic communities are great, but can sometimes become a crutch for people, as they think that they don't really need to learn the language because they can just stay in their own community. Unfortunately it creates a large amount of problems in regards to communication with police, government and emergency workers. Like when my grandma was hit by a car this past summer in Chinatown and my aunts and uncles couldn't speak english well enough to understand police officers, doctors, nurses, etc. My mom and dad were caught up at work, so my mom had to call me over to the hospital just to see how she was doing and to communicate with doctors.

I just don't think that Canada has the same problem as whats happening in the UK. Here it is the older generations that have trouble communicating and keeping to themselves, the problem facing the youth is a disconnect with their own ethnic culture in most cases. From what I can gather in the UK, they seem to have even the younger generation having trouble interacting with british society. Though I think even in Canada there is a danger of seperating ethnicities just by the actions of some people, a theoretically possible scenario is with the bars/clubs (you know who you are) in Calgary having what looks like racial discrimination not letting asians in, would create the idea of someone opening an Asian bar/club where they would do the same to non asians causing even more problems.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm sure even the dumbest Canadian realizes the political backlash that would cause.

From some of the posts after yours, apparently not.

People isolating themselves is not a symptom of multiculturalism. It is infact the opposite. In order to be multicultural you must experience other cultures. For one to isolate themselves no matter what race goes against this ideology.

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by CarlW

Most people that can't speak english are usually the older people, as learning a new language is harder the older you get, not to mention some people just don't have the linguistic knack for learning languages. Unfortunately there is also the mind set that "i'm too old to learn english now" My mom and dad run a store and my mom can speak better english then my dad by a fair margin with the same amount of time in North America.

The ethnic communities are great, but can sometimes become a crutch for people, as they think that they don't really need to learn the language because they can just stay in their own community. Unfortunately it creates a large amount of problems in regards to communication with police, government and emergency workers. Like when my grandma was hit by a car this past summer in Chinatown and my aunts and uncles couldn't speak english well enough to understand police officers, doctors, nurses, etc. My mom and dad were caught up at work, so my mom had to call me over to the hospital just to see how she was doing and to communicate with doctors.

I just don't think that Canada has the same problem as whats happening in the UK. Here it is the older generations that have trouble communicating and keeping to themselves, the problem facing the youth is a disconnect with their own ethnic culture in most cases. From what I can gather in the UK, they seem to have even the younger generation having trouble interacting with british society. Though I think even in Canada there is a danger of seperating ethnicities just by the actions of some people, a theoretically possible scenario is with the bars/clubs (you know who you are) in Calgary having what looks like racial discrimination not letting asians in, would create the idea of someone opening an Asian bar/club where they would do the same to non asians causing even more problems.

I think you're partly correct in saying the older generations are where we see this type of 'refusal to integrate'. But on the other hand, look at the average university campus around Canada today. I'm out on Vancouver island, and at times I almost find it hard to believe that I'm in Canada with the amount of foreign langauges being spoken. It's no secret that most are from various places in Asia. I think it's really cool that they (their culture) has such an interest in this part of the world, however I would have to assume that when coming over here, part of the reason they did so was to learn about a different place in the world...And for the most part, I don't see that happening.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Barnes

From some of the posts after yours, apparently not.

People isolating themselves is not a symptom of multiculturalism. It is infact the opposite. In order to be multicultural you must experience other cultures. For one to isolate themselves no matter what race goes against this ideology.

I'm talking about Canada as a country being multicultural.

The people of Canada don't need to be multicultural, but its important that the country as a whole recognizes the different culture around us.

[FlamesAddiction]

Kind of ironic coming from a British leader, considering that Britain was at one time, the biggest colonizer in the world. From the barrel of a gun, they forced numerous indigenous cultures around the world to adopt British ideals.

I do agree somwhat though. If a person or family chooses to immigrate to another country, then they should have an obligation to uphold to certain cultural expections of their new country. There should also be room for them to keep some of their own traditions though.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by HOZ

''No distinctive culture or religion supersedes our duty to be part of an integrated United Kingdom,"

Forget race, we have an entire province that needs to listen to this message.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

I think you're partly correct in saying the older generations are where we see this type of 'refusal to integrate'. But on the other hand, look at the average university campus around Canada today. I'm out on Vancouver island, and at times I almost find it hard to believe that I'm in Canada with the amount of foreign langauges being spoken. It's no secret that most are from various places in Asia. I think it's really cool that they (their culture) has such an interest in this part of the world, however I would have to assume that when coming over here, part of the reason they did so was to learn about a different place in the world...And for the most part, I don't see that happening.

Im sure most of them can speak english if they are attending a Canadian university...maybe they are just more comfortable speaking the language they learned growing up.

And I agree to some extent that there is an unwillingness to integrate..but its partly human nature..if you are in a new place, you don't know the language too well, there are a lot of people who live different lifestyles, have different customs to you..who are you going to gravitate to? Others who are just like you.

However, these people who grew up here and only have friends of their own race, I really don't understand that at all. And its not only minorities that are guilty of this, there are plenty of groups of "white folks" at university campuses and no one ever says they are refusing to integrate.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

I think you're partly correct in saying the older generations are where we see this type of 'refusal to integrate'. But on the other hand, look at the average university campus around Canada today. I'm out on Vancouver island, and at times I almost find it hard to believe that I'm in Canada with the amount of foreign langauges being spoken. It's no secret that most are from various places in Asia. I think it's really cool that they (their culture) has such an interest in this part of the world, however I would have to assume that when coming over here, part of the reason they did so was to learn about a different place in the world...And for the most part, I don't see that happening.

Well like Igottago said, i'm sure most of them have some grasp of english as they are attending university, but they are just speaking in their native tongue when speaking with others of their own culture. I know of someone that was from Saskatoon and went to UBC because they thought that they were too much of a banana and that their language skill in Cantonese was declining, so that person would be trying their darndest to speak Cantonese with others who could to improve their language skills but they would be very Canadian. I also know someone else whom I asked why they decided to goto the U of S, with so few Chinese in this province when they could've gone to UBC and she said that she chose the U of S because there were so few Chinese, so that she could improve her english but she still speaks Mandarin when others start talking to her in Mandarin. I don't really think that you can tell if someone is really trying to integrate just by the language they may be speaking at a glance. If someone from Edmonton was to drop into, i dunno, Nanjing and could speak ok Mandarin but met someone from Winnipeg don't you think they would start talking in English to each other? It doesn't mean that they aren't willing to immerse themselves in the Chinese culture.

Being a part of an organization called AIESEC, over the summer we brought a Malaysian Chinese intern into Calgary to work for a NPO and though she could speak pretty good English it seemed to help ease her transition and culture shock to know that you have that person that can talk to in a tongue your more comfortable in, or can ask questions you might not know how to in English.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm talking about Canada as a country being multicultural.

The people of Canada don't need to be multicultural, but its important that the country as a whole recognizes the different culture around us.

Yhe second part of comment wasn't directed at you FWIW.

I do have a question about your comment though. You think that it isn't important to recognize cultures within Canada? Just outside?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Yhe second part of comment wasn't directed at you FWIW.

I do have a question about your comment though. You think that it isn't important to recognize cultures within Canada? Just outside?

I mean within Canada.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Azure

I mean within Canada.

Gotcha, that's what i thought.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Gotcha, that's what i thought.

Yep.

Canada is know for its friendly attitude towards other cultures. My grade 12 year, we had 2 students from Romania join us.

Both of them and their families moved over because of Canada's acceptance to their culture...not that its any different from ours...and also because of the jobs in Alberta.

Blair has a good point...but you still have to give people the freedom to practice their own culture...within the confines of being equal.

That also means those same people who are given that right, must adhere to Canadian laws...and Canadian society.

Meaning Canada does not have to accept Sharia law for the Islamic fundies that are pushing for it.

[Vulcan]

I was married to a woman from another culture and it was a great learning experience. The one downside was when her and her sisters would use their own language when playing cards.