I'm as big a Monahan fan as any, but I don't consider him elite. In my opinion, there are only a handful of elite center men in the league, and then a group of good #1Cs. Monahan falls into the latter, and only guys like Crosby, Malkin, McDavid, Bergeron and maybe one or two more fall into the elite category.
I think we will win the Cup with Monahan as the 1C.
Guess that just depends on ones definition of elite, but yeah I agree with your overall assessment. He's surely a tier below the guys that dominate at every aspect of the game like Crosby, Malkin, Bergeron and Kopitar.
Henrik Zetterberg didn't play in the NHL until he was 22, and didn't have a season over 50 points until he was 25. Played in his first Stanley Cup finals at 27
Pavel Datsyuk starting in the NHL when he was 23. Didn't have a 60 point season until he was 25. First Finals appearance was at 29.
Jeff Carter by age 23 doesn't have a season as good as Monahan's. He does have an 84 point year as a 24 year old. Huh. Shocking. Carter also doesn't have is a Stanley Cup until he's 27. And then another at 29. Are you sensing a pattern, Love..
Every situation is different. Monahan has been playing on the first line for four seasons.
Carter had Forsberg and then Briere blocking him.
Zetterberg and Datsyuk were blocked as well.
I'm not saying Monahan isn't going to improve but more of his iceberg is showing than guys like Carter, Dats and Zetterberg at the same age.
Most times when you see someone with a big boost in production its because they have graduated to a larger role.
Most people agree that this off season has made the Flames better and deeper than last year. Where peoples opinions seem to differ is how much better they got and is it enough. I do think the Flames no question are better up front. Losing Ferland, Brouwer and Stajan for Neal, Lindholm and Ryan. Most would argue that Hamilton out for Hanifin is a downgrade but some argue that Hamilton is overrated and the Flames could get a boost from Brodie playing with Gio again. Most people are worried about the goalies and if Smith cant stay healthy this could kill any chances of making the playoffs. Because of this lots feel the Flames aren't contenders. Because of this I feel this clouds peoples judgement on the Flames core and if it can be a winner
IMO the biggest difference for this Flames team vs the past few years is the potential. This roster could be the youngest the Flames have had since the rebuild started. This roster also should have the most 25 year and under players since the rebuild started. 23 and under as well. In the past the Flames always seem to have 1 -2 players that you could say if they break out this team could be good. This years Flames team could have 5 or 6 real breakout players
This doesn't include that guys like Monahan, Kulak, Gaudreau could have some growth and guys like Frolik, Brodie, Backlund could have bounce back years
You could also see guys like Foo, Valimaki and Andersson make this team. Adding to the youth and potential in future years
None of this mentions that this core is wrapped up and all for very favourable cap hits (Tkachuk and Hanifin still to come). I believe Treliving still can add to this core. IMO this core has a real shot at a few year stretch of being a cup contender. Maybe longer
Every situation is different. Monahan has been playing on the first line for four seasons.
Carter had Forsberg and then Briere blocking him.
Zetterberg and Datsyuk were blocked as well.
I'm not saying Monahan isn't going to improve but more of his iceberg is showing than guys like Carter, Dats and Zetterberg at the same age.
Most times when you see someone with a big boost in production its because they have graduated to a larger role.
Monahan doesn't need to improve. He is there now. He was maintaining a 40-goal/80-point clip while healthy this season. Those are excellent numbers for a top-line centreman.
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Monahan doesn't need to improve. He is there now. He was maintaining a 40-goal/80-point clip while healthy this season. Those are excellent numbers for a top-line centreman.
Yes into his 5th season, he was on PPG pace for a while. But ultimately his career high is 64 points in a season. Some of the comparable centres names who have been thrown out which people claim Monahan is just as good as:
Also, recent Stanley Cup winning 1Cs (a role many think Monahan is equal to)
Crosby 120pts
Datsyuk 97pts **also Selke trophy winner
Getzlaf 91pts
Kopitar 92pts **also Selke trophy winner
Toews 76pts **also Selke trophy winner
Bergeron 73pts **also Selke trophy winner
Monahan 64pts (**20th in selke voting in 2015)
I think Monahan is a great player, and I think he is still improving - which is great. But to think "he is already there and doesn't need to improve" is a bit naive in my opinion.
So, yea, I think in order to content the Flames need a solid, proven #1 goalie and a true #1 centre. Monahan could be the latter, but isn't atm (on a contender)
Monahan doesn't need to improve. He is there now. He was maintaining a 40-goal/80-point clip while healthy this season. Those are excellent numbers for a top-line centreman.
He can improve in terms of his possession/play driving, which is I think what holds most back from calling him a good top line center. Gaudreau does that for line one but that's his bread and butter, and maybe people feel Monahan has to do it more just cause he's the center and that's traditionally part of the center's game.
Otherwise he just needs to stay healthy. He's trending towards an 80 point center and will in all likelihood be pretty soon with an improved top line.
By all accounts on top of not having filled out his potential yet, he also hasn't been fully healthy in a few seasons if you look into his claim of feeling better than he has in some time. Some of the ailments that required the four surgeries weren't just from last season but were carrying over. If I were to guess it's been 2 seasons of not 100% Monahan given that going into 16/17 there was also word that things were bugging him.
It's a good time to buy into Monahan as a 1C knowing the above and seeing the level he was producing at before needing to be shut down in the last third.
Monahan doesn't need to improve. He is there now. He was maintaining a 40-goal/80-point clip while healthy this season. Those are excellent numbers for a top-line centreman.
Exactly this. Maybe if this was last off-season, I could see the arguments that Monahan was only ever going to be a 30/30 player and while those are good numbers for a #1C, they aren't great. This past season, he showed without a shadow of a doubt that he has that extra tier he can reach. He maintained that 40/40 pace for a large chunk of the season before injuries started piling up on him. And remember too, his RW in Ferland went completely stone cold for a while.
At his age he should be healed up by the time the season rolls around AND he has a legit top line RW to play with. I loved Ferland and will miss him, but make no mistake; he's no James Neal when it comes to proven consistency.
I thought when he was drafted that his peak might be a 70 point player at his best. But clearly he showed he can reach loftier heights playing with a player of Gaudreau's calibre. Sam Bennett was supposed to be our #1 PPG C, but it now appears unlikely that will happen. At the same time, I'm more then happy with Monahan producing like he is and claiming that #1 C role long term.
And even if the Flames by some miracle do end up being cup contenders, it isn't going to be on the back of Sean Monahan putting up Kopitar-like numbers. The Flames will be cup contenders when the remaining depth decides to show up and the entire team plays to their strengths.
Fair to say, Monahan is doing his share of the work and has proven he can do more.
I think the big trwde this summer was the first indication that the core of this group needed to change. Interesting enough the pieces Treliving sent out represented a couple items of this core group. Was Ferland going to be apart of if? He is a pending UFA next summer and another 20+ goal 40+pt season could have him in line for at least a Brouwer deal of $4+M for at least 4 years.
Hamilton though while still having 3 years left on his deal represented the first massive 3rd contract the Flames would have to dish out likely in the 8-10M per range. Swapping those pieces out for the 23 year old Lindholm and 21 year old Hanifin avoids that scenario and imo buys the Flames more time with this new core.
If the Flames clearly win the trade with Carolina and can get a lot more out of at least one of Bennett/Jankowski then I think they contend for a cup in the next 4 years.
Flames core is almost there. They are still really really young and despite the impatience on this site, they aren't quite at their peak potential yet.
The only thing that I would say hinders this core is Mike Smith, and goaltending situation in general.
Smith isn't a goalie who takes you on a deep playoff run, but if he can teach one of the younger guys some tricks this season and if one of Gilles or Rittich really steps up and takes over then we are in business and can go on a deeper run.
Smith just doesn't cut it for me over an 82 game season. but the rest of this core doesn't get enough credit and they will be very good the next few years.
No. I don't think coaching was near enough of a problem as has been let on.
The Flames are extremely top heavy their best player is aging and their goaltending is questionable going forward. They have a good group in long term plans (Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau, Hanifin) bet everything else is just deck chair shuffling until proven other wise.
Calgary is a perennial wild card team with 2nd round aspirations
This is the response I have seen a lot recently. Not everyone is convinced the Flames had as good of a summer as I believe they have had.
You look at the Oilers 2 years ago where everything went right (including the easiest schedule in the league). With Klefbom, Larson, Lucic, Talbot all having strong years this team seemed poised for Contention the next year. People love McDavid too much to write the team off but they are now a trendy playoff pick not a cup contender.
With a huge second half in 2017 the Flames were a trendy pick to do damage last year but poor play and injuries cost the team dearly. Moves have been made but it remains to see if Brodie, Hamonic, Bennett, Backlund can all be the players they once were (or in Bennett’s case thought he would be).
It is a tough team to predict.
Out: Hamilton, Ferland, Brouwer, Stajan, Versteeg, Gulutzan, Cameron, Jerrard
In: Hanifin, Lindholm, Neal, Ryan, Czarnik, Peters, Ward, Huska
Massive turnover and really I see upgrades across the board with the exception of Hamilton-Hanifin. Long term maybe but likely not next year. The 4 forwards I feel represent a far bigger upgrade than the downgrade from Hamilton to Hanifin which is why I am very high on the team going into this season. I can see people from the outside who view Hamilton as a top 10 Dman in the game thinking Calgary is no better off even if they are better at forward because they gave up an elite top pairing Dman. You look at that, the hiring of Peters and the long term contract given to Neal and I can see how lazy journalism can lead to the conclusion the Flames may be no better off this year
