Do you think the Flames will contend for the Cup with this core?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Love

Kuznetsov & Backstrom.
Crosby & Malkin.
Kopitar
Mike Richards
Jeff Carter

Bergeron
Krecji

Datsyuk
Zetterberg..... Etc

Henrik Zetterberg didn't play in the NHL until he was 22, and didn't have a season over 50 points until he was 25. Played in his first Stanley Cup finals at 27

Pavel Datsyuk starting in the NHL when he was 23. Didn't have a 60 point season until he was 25. First Finals appearance was at 29.

Bergeron was better than Monahan at the same time. He also recovered from a broken neck. Patrice Bergeron is one of the best players to ever play the game. And he won a Stanley Cup at age 25.

David Krecji was also 24 when the Bruins won. Krecji is a damn fine hockey player in his own right.

Jeff Carter by age 23 doesn't have a season as good as Monahan's. He does have an 84 point year as a 24 year old. Huh. Shocking. Carter also doesn't have is a Stanley Cup until he's 27. And then another at 29. Are you sensing a pattern, Love.

Anze Kopitar is better than Sean Monahan. Yes, he is. We asked the NHL, how old was Anze Kopitar when he won his rings, only two answers on the board, and the spreadsheet says.... 24 and 26! Oh, who could've seen that coming.

Mike Richards, with the benefit of the lockout year, debuts as a 20-year old and has 34 points just like #23. The next season, Richards was actually a little worse - only 32 (Monahan went from 34 to 62, no big deal. Only has two more 60 point seasons after that). Richards is 26 and 28 during the Kings championships.

Kuznetzov showed up when he was 21, and that year a 19-year old Monahan outscored him by 21 points. Playing on the powerhouse post-Iggy pre-Johnny Flames I know, so someone who knows math should do some era-adjusting. Just this year, he won the Stanley Cup as a 25 year old man.

Nicklas Backstrom is a player better than Sean Monahan. Always has been. Maybe the most forgotten elite player in the league. He's 30.

Crosby and Malkin, the two best players in the world, did indeed manage to win a Cup when they were 21/22 respectively. It then took them nearly a decade to get back. Crosby wins at age 28/29, Malkin 29/30.

So if you want to say we need another centre to bump Backlund down, I'll agree.

I don't know if we'll win anything with Monahan. I know we won't win anything without him.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Love

Becoming criminally overrated on this board. Comparison to Iginla sent me to another dimension.

Nah, TSN last year put up a video about how Monahan is quietly going about his business being a high end #1 center. What the vocal few are saying is correct in that the way he scores his goals makes it look incredibly easy. It's not. And he's the only player so far who has managed to keep up with Gaudreau and his creativity.

The number comparison between Monahan and Iginla are just lip service to how good Monahan really is. His isn't a banger power forward, he isn't a lethal one timer option. What he is though is elite in on ice awareness and finishing plays. He truly is a cerebral center.

I too think Monahan is serverely under rated in these parts. Would even go so far as adding a bit of hyperbole to the term criminally

[CroFlames]

I merely LOL at posts that underrate Monahan now.

It used to bother me, but the facts and the eye test speak for themselves.

He's done nothing but improve year over year and is a top line C.

[Kybb79]

Only on CP is Monahan considered elite. The Flames will never win anything with him as the number 1 Centre.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by Love

Becoming criminally overrated on this board. Comparison to Iginla sent me to another dimension.

Comparison to 23 year old Iginla, not peek Iginla - not yet.

Even then that's at scoring and point production. No one is accusing Monahan of menacing physicality.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Love

Becoming criminally overrated on this board. Comparison to Iginla sent me to another dimension.

Please stay there.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Love

Gaudreau must be Gretzky level then

Why not stick with your "tap in" player argument?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I thought Mark Scheifele was one of the best young centermen in the game. Has that changed? Scheifele has 6 more points and he's a year older.

Scheifele through his age 23 season:

306 GP 90G 137A 227 PTS

Are there people making the argument that Winnipeg lacks a #1C?

Scheifele does a lot of things that don't show up in scoring stats better than Monahan.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Monahan is criminally underrated.

He's somewhat underrated as a scorer. Where the contention around Monahan lies is how he stacks up to other centers in the non-scoring part of the game. And the reason there's so much contention around it is because some fans A) don't much care about the non-scoring part of his game if a player can score, or B) do care, but don't have any clearcut way to assess that part of the game so it can be pretty subjective.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Scheifele does a lot of things that don't show up in scoring stats better than Monahan.



He's somewhat underrated as a scorer. Where the contention around Monahan lies is how he stacks up to other centers in the non-scoring part of the game. And the reason there's so much contention around it is because some fans A) don't much care about the non-scoring part of his game if a player can score, or B) do care, but don't have any clearcut way to assess that part of the game so it can be pretty subjective.

What specifically are you referring to here? Can you please name them.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Only on CP is Monahan considered elite. The Flames will never win anything with him as the number 1 Centre.

What does this even mean? We won’t win anything? Are we competing for the community shield and the FA cup?

There is no anything, there is only the Stanley Cup. And we will win it with Sean Monahan as our #1C.

[djsFlames]

Some of you guys are brutal.

3/4 of the core are still on upward trajectories. How do you that 20/22/24 year olds with 2-4 seasons under their belts aren't able to take their games to another level like countless players have historically. If you can see it all in your crystal ball then why not just jump ship already?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

What specifically are you referring to here? Can you please name them.

I'd assume things like defensive side of the game, play-making, physicality, etc.

I think he clearly has holes to his game but I don't think we necessarily need him to be the ultimate #1 center if we can surround him with the right group. He's a piece of the puzzle and he's a good piece. Hopefully he continues to improve as do all our other young players.

[dino7c]

Leading goal scorer of his draft year

"Decent 2nd line center"

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

What specifically are you referring to here? Can you please name them.

Forechecking. Backchecking. Getting in passing lanes. Breaking up plays. Skating as hard when the other team has the puck as when yours does. Generally, making life miserable for the opposing player who has the puck. The things Bergeron, Kopitar, and Schiefele do better than Seguin, Kuznetsov, and Stamkos.

Watch Lindholm when the season gets underway. That stuff.

[Poe969]

Well if Lindholm turns into a #1 center, Monahan would be an amazing #2.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Leading goal scorer of his draft year

"Decent 2nd line center"

Didn't you know? 2nd line centers are now 30g/65pt players.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Only on CP is Monahan considered elite. The Flames will never win anything with him as the number 1 Centre.

TheHockeyNews has him listed on their 50 best players list. It's not just CP that thinks he's elite

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by btimbit

TheHockeyNews has him listed on their 50 best players list. It's not just CP that thinks he's elite

I'm as big a Monahan fan as any, but I don't consider him elite. In my opinion, there are only a handful of elite center men in the league, and then a group of good #1Cs. Monahan falls into the latter, and only guys like Crosby, Malkin, McDavid, Bergeron and maybe one or two more fall into the elite category.

I think we will win the Cup with Monahan as the 1C.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Forechecking. Backchecking. Getting in passing lanes. Breaking up plays. Skating as hard when the other team has the puck as when yours does. Generally, making life miserable for the opposing player who has the puck. The things Bergeron, Kopitar, and Schiefele do better than Seguin, Kuznetsov, and Stamkos.

Watch Lindholm when the season gets underway. That stuff.

Thanks. I can understand people looking at these. I think the skating aspect leaves people wanting more (those areas you listed are related to skating imo) but although not a bad skater Monahan’s strengths rely on his hockey sense.

He has an elite mind and when I watch him I see him make up for the skating with how he thinks the game - especially with those areas you listed.

Skating is one of those things that jump out or are flashy but when I watch him,I see a guy who understands how to use his mind to be efficient in every aspect. I keep saying “good idea” whenever I watch him play (especially live where you see him away from puck).

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Forechecking. Backchecking. Getting in passing lanes. Breaking up plays. Skating as hard when the other team has the puck as when yours does. Generally, making life miserable for the opposing player who has the puck. The things Bergeron, Kopitar, and Schiefele do better than Seguin, Kuznetsov, and Stamkos.

Watch Lindholm when the season gets underway. That stuff.

3rd on the team in Takeaways, between Bennett and Gio. (Edit: 2 more than Lindholm evidently)

Fun side note: Backlund absolutley dominated this category on the Flames.