2018 World Cup

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Retroactive yellows would get the job done - especially in a tournament like this.

Say if Neymar had got two post game yellows for embellishment already this tournament (not a stretch) he would be missing the quarter final match up.

That would tone down the diving quickly IMO.

The issue with that is even with video sometimes its hard to judge, neymars roll about the other day i dont think you can give a yellow too because the guy did step on him a bit

The other issue is some 'dives' are a player avoiding injury, this has happened a lot with bale and ronaldo, they jump to avoid a knee to the thigh at full speed and people call them divers, when in reality they are saving their legs

Its a hard thing to do, i wish there was a way to officiate it better but every idea has its drawbacks

Brazillians defending neymar doesnt help though

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

The issue with that is even with video sometimes its hard to judge, neymars roll about the other day i dont think you can give a yellow too because the guy did step on him a bit

This is part of the problem, IMO. "Well he did get stepped on..." just justifies his absurd reaction. Of course we can't say how much something hurts based on a replay, but I can guarantee that the reaction was disproportionate to the action. Yellow any day of the week.

And for good measure, the step should also be penalized with a yellow.

It is the same to me as the striker who starts his fall, makes sure his leg grazes the defender on the way down, and then fans, pundits, etc. say "well there was contact..." when trying to justify the dive. Even though the dive happened before the contact.

And finally, sometimes being a prolific diver results in more dangerous tackles coming your way. If someone like Neymar (or *cough* for Brazilians, insert someone else's name) is going to go down and draw a yellow on you, some defenders are probably thinking "well if he's going down anyway, I may as well make it worth it" and get a good, clean crack at him. Let's be honest - the reaction (dramatic rolling and shin clutching) and result (a yellow for the defender) is going to be similar anyway, so you may as well make it count.

[GirlySports]

the main question is always, was there a foul. forget the rest.

Neymar got stepped on and reacted, mexican gets the red card
Neymar didn't get stepped on and reacted, he gets the red card

as mentioned above, at the moment the fouls are not treated equally for the 'ball-carrier' who has carte-blanche to dive. Low risk, high reward.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

the main question is always, was there a foul. forget the rest.

Neymar got stepped on and reacted, mexican gets the red card
Neymar didn't get stepped on and reacted, he gets the red card

as mentioned above, at the moment the fouls are not treated equally for the 'ball-carrier' who has carte-blanche to dive. Low risk, high reward.

But it is never that black and white. Intentional vs. unintentional, step, stomp, graze, imaginary, etc. It is totally possible for there to be a foul committed worthy of a free kick, a talking to, a finger wag, a warning, a yellow, or a red. Likewise, is is possible to have a reaction that is reasonable, proportionate, disproportionate, embarrassing, absurd, deceptive, punishable, etc. And everything in between.

Was there intent to injure Neymar's leg? Obviously difficult to tell from replays, but it didn't look like a lot of pressure to me. Intent to piss him off? Absolutely. Run in and stomp and you've got a totally different foul, and sadly the exact same reaction.

[GirlySports]

We have a ref on the field, VAR, refs in the VAR room and the ref on the field who can go watch VAR in a tv booth.

That should be enough people to distinguish what is right and wrong.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

We have a ref on the field, VAR, refs in the VAR room and the ref on the field who can go watch VAR in a tv booth.

That should be enough people to distinguish what is right and wrong.

Absolutely. Now it is just a matter of applying it properly. It has been a bit hit and miss in this World Cup.

Edit: Although I would add the chance for the VAR room to toss a few yellows around after the match to penalize and deter simulation and embellishment. Or at least be willing to dish them out during play when the antics get embarrassing. If the goal is to deter it, there needs to be an increased risk to doing it. Right now it is mostly reward with very little risk.

[shermanator]

Just in case people are interested...

[SebC]

Come on, we know Neymar was completely over-reacting because the same who foot that on him was simultaneously also on the fourth official who didn't react at all.

I also disagree that there can't be a foul and a dive on the same play. Embellishment is diving. If you fall in a way that is not consistent with the momentum you had when you were tripped, you're a diver.

[devo22]

According to O Globo, Neymar has spent 13 minutes and 50 seconds on the floor during this WC so far. I mean, that's almost impressive ...

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by SebC

Come on, we know Neymar was completely over-reacting because the same who foot that on him was simultaneously also on the fourth official who didn't react at all.

I also disagree that there can't be a foul and a dive on the same play. Embellishment is diving. If you fall in a way that is not consistent with the momentum you had when you were tripped, you're a diver.

Any comments about Henderson or McGuire? I’m guessing no. 3 pages on Neymar but not a peep about the diving/antic exhibition we saw in the Col-Eng game. Carry on.

[FireGilbert]

Someone calculated that Neymar has spent a total of 14 minutes flopping around during the Cup. SMH. Go Belgium!

[Beninho]

In other news the Uruguay-France game will be reffed by 3 Argentines. Feel like this is very odd considering France knocked Argentina out.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Any comments about Henderson or McGuire? I’m guessing no. 3 pages on Neymar but not a peep about the diving/antic exhibition we saw in the Col-Eng game. Carry on.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=TejoMjHk3x0

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=TejoMjHk3x0

I’m just wondering where the outcry was, if people are gonna lose their collective #### over Neymar where is the crying about Henderson? Sebc ripping Neymar when there was just a game where England had 2 diving/embellishing incidences, but I guess they don’t matter and aren’t worth commenting on. No one mentioned it in this thread outside me. English men don’t dive I guess. Double standards as always. England has a strong group of divers in their ranks but just Neymar Neymar Neymar. Give it a rest.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I’m just wondering where the outcry was, if people are gonna lose their collective #### over Neymar where is the crying about Henderson? Sebc ripping Neymar when there was just a game where England had 2 diving/embellishing incidences, but I guess they don’t matter and aren’t worth commenting on. English men don’t dive. Double standards as always.

Honestly it had nothing to do with double standards here - everyone acknowledges that the majority of soccer players from all countries dive.

BUT Neymar has taken it to a whole other level in this World Cup. Whether it was the rolling for 10 yards after a foul, or his complete flail around on the sideline yesterday - he’s went above and beyond just embellishing to get a call.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Honestly it had nothing to do with double standards here - everyone acknowledges that the majority of soccer players from all countries dive.

BUT Neymar has taken it to a whole other level in this World Cup. Whether it was the rolling for 10 yards after a foul, or his complete flail around on the sideline yesterday - he’s went above and beyond just embellishing to get a call.

Don’t put your studs on another players ankle when they are on the ground, on an ankle he has been injured with. The way people are discussing him is like he goes to the ground every time he gets in the other teams box. Just non stop bitching about him. He’s too quick and too fast so he gets fouled 10 times a game. He Overreacts but hes 99% of time actually fouled. Oh well, let’s have another 5 page discussion about how Neymar is a disgrace and ruining the sport.

People wondering why I don’t care about his antics is like asking Bruins fans why they don’t hate Marchand. I’d rather him not do the extra #### but I could care less cuz he always delivers in the Brasil shirt, Almost second in Brasil scoring by the age of 26 will make any Brasil fan tolerate his antics.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Don’t put your studs on another players ankle when they are on the ground, on an ankle he has been injured with. The way people are discussing him is like he goes to the ground every time he gets in the other teams box. Just non stop bitching about him. He’s too quick and too fast so he gets fouled 10 times a game. He Overreacts but hes 99% of time actually fouled. Oh well, let’s have another 5 page discussion about how Neymar is a disgrace and ruining the sport.

People wondering why I don’t care about his antics is like asking Bruins fans why they don’t hate Marchand. I’d rather him not do the extra #### but I could care less cuz he always delivers in the Brasil shirt, Almost second in Brasil scoring by the age of 26 will make any Brasil fan tolerate his antics.

Man. I haven't seen anything this dense since I googled "what are dense things" and saw pictures of Mumbai

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I’m just wondering where the outcry was, if people are gonna lose their collective #### over Neymar where is the crying about Henderson? Sebc ripping Neymar when there was just a game where England had 2 diving/embellishing incidences, but I guess they don’t matter and aren’t worth commenting on. No one mentioned it in this thread outside me. English men don’t dive I guess. Double standards as always. England has a strong group of divers in their ranks but just Neymar Neymar Neymar. Give it a rest.

The issue is that Neymar has deservedly become the poster child for what is wrong with soccer. A top 5 player who also does these antics is obviously going to draw the ire of the world at the world stage.

The sport as a whole needs to reduce diving and embellishing and everyone knows that he is not the only one guilty of this.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Man. I haven't seen anything this dense since I googled "what are dense things" and saw pictures of Mumbai

Lol, at least I don’t insult people when they disagree with me.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Lol, at least I don’t insult people when they disagree with me.

Relax, don't tumble on the turf like your hero. I said your post was dense. Not you.