the ongoing anti- racism, anti- oppression thread

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

South Africa: Ten years after xenophobic killings, refugees and migrants still living in fear

Don't believe the travel brochures: Myanmar is deeply racist and bigoted

Could anti-Chinese violence flare again in Indonesia?

China and India have a huge problem with racism toward black people

Mexico urged to tackle discrimination against migrants and Indigenous Peoples

Are you making a point that not only white people are racist? I don't think anyone would claim otherwise.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is not an anti-oppression thread, it's a religion thread. A very thinly veiled forum for icecube to preach his noxious evangel. The left-leaning posters in here defending him, like Pepsifree, really need to think twice. This is like a bunch of conservative posters coming in supporting a TexasFlamesFan thread.

Just because he's on the same ideological bandwidth as you does not make you allies. He makes people who believe what you believe look absolutely awful by association, and you're doing him the favour of inviting that association. Yeesh.

Jesus, this is pathetic.

I am genuinely disappointed to see you, a regular supporter of letting ideas air, debating them honestly, and a dismisser of all things “tribal” resort to the methods as the people you despise.

If you’ve come in here to tell left-leaning posters who is/isn’t on their “side” and shut the thread down by lobbing some unintellectual attacks at icecube and the thread itself, then I have to say, your position on a lot of these matters really seems suddenly empty and sad.

Grow up and move on, Corsi. If you don’t like the thread, move on or address the ideas within it. Don’t bring your lame personal issues with posters in here. The ideas will stand on their own or they won’t.

[PsYcNeT]

Seems theres a common theme regarding colonialists being ####ty to indigenous populations in tyool 2018.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Jesus, this is pathetic.

I am genuinely disappointed to see you, a regular supporter of letting ideas air, debating them honestly, and a dismisser of all things “tribal” resort to the methods as the people you despise.

If you’ve come in here to tell left-leaning posters who is/isn’t on their “side” and shut the thread down by lobbing some unintellectual attacks at icecube and the thread itself, then I have to say, your position on a lot of these matters really seems suddenly empty and sad.

Grow up and move on, Corsi. If you don’t like the thread, move on or address the ideas within it. Don’t bring your lame personal issues with posters in here. The ideas will stand on their own or they won’t.

Originally Posted by jayswin

I'd honestly like some advise from Corsi and others on how to make meaningful headway on how Indigenous people are treated in Canada.

I'm asking sincerely as a I feel incredibly guilty as a white person and want to contribute to a better Canada for them, and I fully appreciate that I can't speak reasonably on the matter which in turn pushes people further from joining a needed cause.

This is why I asked this, I sincerely want to know how he feels we could move forward, not how we need to stop talking about it.

He's always very vocal in minority related threads, but seems quick to dismiss discussion and explain how this doesn't help anything. But because he's quite passionate in these threads I assume he does want badly to progress as a society and eliminate racism, I just haven't seen the ideas and posts that highlight this.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Are you making a point that not only white people are racist? I don't think anyone would claim otherwise.

I may be mistaken...but isn't it a pretty common refrain these days that only white people can be racist because they're a majority and the colonialists.

Anyone not white is 'understandably prejudiced', but not 'racist', since "racist" was re-defined (by academics, at any rate) to mean that to be a racist required "prejudice + power", if you just have prejudice, you can't be racist anymore.

Am I misunderstanding the current academic definition of racism?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I may be mistaken...but isn't it a pretty common refrain these days that only white people can be racist because they're a majority and the colonialists.

Anyone not white is 'understandably prejudiced', but not 'racist', since "racist" was re-defined (by academics, at any rate) to mean that to be a racist required "prejudice + power", if you just have prejudice, you can't be racist anymore.

Am I misunderstanding the current academic definition of racism?

Maybe, I've never heard of what you're talking about. I wasn't insinuating anything to do with definitions, just that too many white people look at other racism when racism committed by white people is brought up as a counterpoint.

Very few people tend to claim that only white people are racist, it is just highlighted (especially in the west) because we have the power, and showing other racism is not really much of a counter point or an aha moment.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Grow up and move on, Corsi. If you don’t like the thread, move on or address the ideas within it. Don’t bring your lame personal issues with posters in here. The ideas will stand on their own or they won’t.

Sigh. No, I'm not going to engage icecube any more than I want to have an in-depth political discussion with a fervent supporter of Alex Jones. There are some people who aren't worth it. I don't know why I consistently try to convince myself that you are, that you're capable of looking beyond motivated reasoning and ideological battle lines and recognize when you're hitching your wagon to an extremist ideologue. You decline the opportunity to moderate whenever it's put in front of you - the righteous battle always seems to take precedence.

As it is, I actually have mostly been ignoring this thread, which does seem like the best policy given that de-indoctrinating people over the internet is a fool's errand. So yeah, whatever, never mind. Return to your regularly scheduled horror show of moral confusion and I'll return to my nihilistic depression.

Jayswin, I'll try to respond to you by PM when I'm not on a cell phone, though I'll warn you in advance that if there's any silver bullet answer to your question lurking out there somewhere I'm afraid I don't have it. I know you won't find it in this mess, though.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Sigh. No, I'm not going to engage icecube any more than I want to have an in-depth political discussion with a fervent supporter of Alex Jones. There are some people who aren't worth it. I don't know why I consistently try to convince myself that you are, that you're capable of looking beyond motivated reasoning and ideological battle lines and recognize when you're hitching your wagon to an extremist ideologue. You decline the opportunity to moderate whenever it's put in front of you - the righteous battle always seems to take precedence.

As it is, I actually have mostly been ignoring this thread, which does seem like the best policy given that de-indoctrinating people over the internet is a fool's errand. So yeah, whatever, never mind. Return to your regularly scheduled horror show of moral confusion and I'll return to my nihilistic depression.

Jayswin, I'll try to respond to you by PM when I'm not on a cell phone, though I'll warn you in advance that if there's any silver bullet answer to your question lurking out there somewhere I'm afraid I don't have it. I know you won't find it in this mess, though.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Sigh. No, I'm not going to engage icecube any more than I want to have an in-depth political discussion with a fervent supporter of Alex Jones. There are some people who aren't worth it. I don't know why I consistently try to convince myself that you are, that you're capable of looking beyond motivated reasoning and ideological battle lines and recognize when you're hitching your wagon to an extremist ideologue. You decline the opportunity to moderate whenever it's put in front of you - the righteous battle always seems to take precedence.

Then don’t engage with icecube, engage with the multiple other posters in the thread. If you can do neither, then grow up and stay out of a thread you can’t be bothered to be a part of anymore than “I don’t like this thread! This poster is not your ally!”

Again, your resortment to the tribes you create is kind of astonishingly sad. You shut down ideas, and accuse anyone who agrees with anyone on one point, or likes a post, or defends a post they’ve made, as being somehow allied and in cahoots with this person, as though people who agree on anything must agree on everything, and quite frankly, it goes against a lot of what you pretend to stand for. Even your statement about ideological battle lines rings hollow, you’ve become one of the absolute worst for having your lines drawn and fitting others into your preconcieved ideas of where they do or do not fit, complete with teams, allies, enemies, etc... when we’re just a bunch of posters having fun debating and discussing things on a message board.

Extremist ideologue? Dude, you need to step away and relax. And it’s for the best anyway, you’re not contributing anything here.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I'd honestly like some advise from Corsi and others on how to make meaningful headway on how Indigenous people are treated in Canada.

I'm asking sincerely as a I feel incredibly guilty as a white person and want to contribute to a better Canada for them, and I fully appreciate that I can't speak reasonably on the matter which in turn pushes people further from joining a needed cause.

My advice? Just say hello and talk.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is not an anti-oppression thread, it's a religion thread. A very thinly veiled forum for icecube to preach his noxious evangel. The left-leaning posters in here defending him, like Pepsifree, really need to think twice. This is like a bunch of conservative posters coming in supporting a TexasFlamesFan thread.

Just because he's on the same ideological bandwidth as you does not make you allies. He makes people who believe what you believe look absolutely awful by association, and you're doing him the favour of inviting that association. Yeesh.

[CliffFletcher]

The Racism Treadmill

...Why can’t progressives admit that we’ve made progress? Pinker’s answer for what he dubs “progressophobia” is two-fold. First, our intuitions about whether trends have increased or decreased are shaped by what we can easily recall—news items, shocking events, personal experience, etc. Second, we are more sensitive to negative stimuli than we are to positive ones. These two bugs of human psychology—called the availability bias and the negativity bias, respectively—make us prone to doomsaying, inclined to mistake freak news events for trends, and blind to the slow march of progress...

...Strangely, it is only among thought-leaders that these twin dogmas—the disparity fallacy and the denial of cultural explanations—have become gospel. Black people themselves are, on the whole, open to other ways of thinking. For instance, 60 percent of blacks attribute disparities in income, jobs, and housing mainly to factors other than bias, according to a 2013 Gallup poll. A more recent Pew poll found that 60 percent of blacks without college degrees say their race hasn’t affected their chances of success in life. The belief that cultural factors don’t influence outcomes, too, seems to be the special province of progressive intellectuals. For example, when asked by Pew in 2008, 71 percent of blacks said that rap was a bad influence on society. Nevertheless, for years progressives have accused those who criticize harmful elements within black culture of “victim-blaming,” never stopping to wonder whether the supposed victims actually felt blamed by such observations...

...Indeed, it may be a mistake to think of progressives as engaging in progress-oriented activism to begin with, because that would imply that they are progressing towards some specified endpoint. But if the progressive definition of ‘progress’ ends with a disparity-free world that will never—indeed could never—exist, then progressives are left with a Sisyphean politics; an agitated march to nowhere in particular.

http://quillette.com/2018/05/14/the-racism-treadmill/

[Shazam]

A bunch of white guys arguing about who’s less racist and what racism is.

Never change, white guys.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Shazam

A bunch of white guys arguing about who’s less racist and what racism is.

Never change, white guys.

Feel free to chime in with something useful then.

Never change, minorities.

[Matata]

What minorities need to realize is that white liberals have done all the hard work of thinking for them, and it would be best for everyone if they keep quiet and not upset the racial paradigm that has been assigned to them, so they can maintain their status as valuable political capital. If you can think of a better way to end racism, I'd love to hear it.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Matata

If you can think of a better way to end racism, I'd love to hear it.

A better way than... which?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GGG

If Stanley had been Native and killed a white kid who was steeling from a reserve there would not have been a huge gofundme to support his defense.

I would strongly agree.

Originally Posted by GGG

If the the kids in the vehicle were white a tweet from an elected official saying the only mistake was leaving witnesses would not have been sent.

I would strongly disagree. First, if these criminals were your run of the mill white addicts, no one would be continuously calling them kids. Colten was 22 about to turn 23. Ironically, I think you're showing a bit of a racism (reverse racism, however you want to define it) by treating this adult as anything but.

Secondly, I think you're greatly underestimating the rural population's views on property rights. I'm not saying you won't find your group of racists there, but when it comes to thieves, they're pretty colourblind. "They" supported Knight when he shot his intruder, despite chasing him in two different get aways. Shoot, shovel, shut up was pretty much the motto of the comments at the time. And not just an elected official but Ed Stelmach, the premiere at the time, came to Knght's support.

No one came out to rallies for Stanley Dick after he got killed fleeing a burglary. Nope, instead his killer was praised as a hero by his supporters for killing the career criminal. And most recently you've had people support Maurice from Okotoks for shooting at his intruders.

Elected officials or not, you'll simply find the general sentiment in rural western Canada is that they don't have much respect for the life of thieves regardless of race.

Originally Posted by GGG

I don't think it unreasonable to say that at a minimum most people in Saskachewan have an implicit bias against Natives.

Again, agreed.

[meritmat]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I would strongly agree.


I would strongly disagree. First, if these criminals were your run of the mill white addicts, no one would be continuously calling them kids. Colten was 22 about to turn 23. Ironically, I think you're showing a bit of a racism (reverse racism, however you want to define it) by treating this adult as anything but.

Secondly, I think you're greatly underestimating the rural population's views on property rights. I'm not saying you won't find your group of racists there, but when it comes to thieves, they're pretty colourblind. "They" supported Knight when he shot his intruder, despite chasing him in two different get aways. Shoot, shovel, shut up was pretty much the motto of the comments at the time. And not just an elected official but Ed Stelmach, the premiere at the time, came to Knght's support.

No one came out to rallies for Stanley Dick after he got killed fleeing a burglary. Nope, instead his killer was praised as a hero by his supporters for killing the career criminal. And most recently you've had people support Maurice from Okotoks for shooting at his intruders.

Elected officials or not, you'll simply find the general sentiment in rural western Canada is that they don't have much respect for the life of thieves regardless of race.


Again, agreed.

Great post. Nailed it

Only thing I would change was instead of using the term thief I would use the term criminal. Sadly once there on your property you have no idea what there going to do.

[JohnnyB]

I've experienced plenty of racism, from people pointing and talking about me in public, generalizing about a group they imagine I'm in and making bigoted statements, telling me I'm not welcome in their country, physically threatening me, charging me higher prices than others, excluding me from groups based on my ethnicity... All feels pretty terrible. Even worse when it has come from in-laws or friend groups. I've also experienced unearned opportunities that wouldn't have been offered to me if not for my race and some kindness and generosity because of the same. I find it very awkward when people of my race who I don't know treat me like we are friends or should acknowledge each other in passing just because we're the same race, or when people introduce me to someone just on the basis of us being the same race. It's all pretty upsetting when you let it get to you.

[RichKlit]

Nm