R2 - Series Thread - Golden Knights (P1) vs Sharks (P3)

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by rage2

I find the anger towards the Knights and the blaming of draft rules too easy, stacked deck by the NHL to be quite funny. The Knights' top scorer was part of a package to bury the Clarkson contract, and pick someone CBJ didn't want to keep in exchange for a first and second. Their #2 scorer was chosen by MIN to protect others on their roster, and in exchange, giving the Knights their #8 scorer.

CBJ and MIN gifted the Knights their #1, #2 and #8 goal scorers. To be fair, nobody expected Karlsson and Haula to perform the way they did this year, but you can't argue that it's the draft rules that gave them these players. These guys were literally forced on the Knights in exchange for picks and prospects.

If those teams were able to protect a few more players then they probably don't have to swing those deals in the first place.

The NHL didn't want a bottom feeder filled with AHL scrubs and so they went overboard the other way.

There has to be some middle ground between the expansion teams of the 90's / early 00's and this 109 point juggernaut that is half way to winning a Stanley Cup in year 1.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If those teams were able to protect a few more players then they probably don't have to swing those deals in the first place.

The NHL didn't want a bottom feeder filled with AHL scrubs and so they went overboard the other way.

There has to be some middle ground between the expansion teams of the 90's / early 00's and this 109 point juggernaut that is half way to winning a Stanley Cup in year 1.

I don't want a bottom feeder filled with AHL scrubs in the NHL. It's a bad look on any league and nothing wrong with what the NHL did IMO. Nobody was complaining about the draft last summer and it's only because some of these players blew up that people are complaining. Leave a lot of these guys on their previous teams and half of them are probably still buried and nobody is talking about them today.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't want a bottom feeder filled with AHL scrubs in the NHL. It's a bad look on any league and nothing wrong with what the NHL did IMO. Nobody was complaining about the draft last summer and it's only because some of these players blew up that people are complaining. Leave a lot of these guys on their previous teams and half of them are probably still buried and nobody is talking about them today.

Yeah I don't want that either, so LIKE I SAID how about some middle ground instead of going from non-existent to Stanley Cup contender.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If those teams were able to protect a few more players then they probably don't have to swing those deals in the first place.

The NHL didn't want a bottom feeder filled with AHL scrubs and so they went overboard the other way.

There has to be some middle ground between the expansion teams of the 90's / early 00's and this 109 point juggernaut that is half way to winning a Stanley Cup in year 1.

if the rules really were too biased for Vegas, you guys all would have noticed it last year instead of thinking vegas had a crappy team and McPhee did a poor job.

I just think your ire at Vegas being "gifted" a great team is misguided.

Vegas isn't good because of a slanted playing field, but because of shrewd management, excellent coaching, some dumb GM's, and for whatever reason over achieving players.

I can see being jealous of their success, but it's unfair to say it was based on an overly advantageous drafting scenario. they've earned what they've gotten.
If someone doesn't like it because it's their 1st season and they don't deserve it, (or as others have said, their fan base doesn't deserve it) that's just too bad.

just seems funny to hate on their success because it isn't what someone deems "fair"

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah I don't want that either, so LIKE I SAID how about some middle ground instead of going from non-existent to Stanley Cup contender.

Well how do you go about That? Everyone and their dog thought they would be 31st.

People complaining now about the system just have sour grapes because their team wasn't as good as them this year.

[Erick Estrada]

I think McPhee, Gallant and the rest of the LV management/coaching staff isn’t getting the credit they deserve here.

[Inglewood Jack]

if I recall, McPhee even took some criticism for *not* assembling the absolute best possible roster. didn't they select way too many defensemen with the intention of holding a big old auction, only too find out they couldn't get rid of the glut as easily as they thought?

honestly if you looked at that lineup last June and thought to yourself "whoa, they have gone way too far with this, that's a cup contender!!" then you should quit your job now and send your resume to some NHL teams because you know stuff that almost nobody else in the hockey universe does.

most of all, this is sports, and sports owes you a "fair" expansion team performance about as much as it owes you a championship contending Flames team for your 30 years of suffering...i.e. not at all.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Well how do you go about That? Everyone and their dog thought they would be 31st.

People complaining now about the system just have sour grapes because their team wasn't as good as them this year.

Parity in the NHL makes the fight for the playoffs and eventually the Cup a guessing game from season to season.

Tampa Bay and Wpg were not in the playoffs last season.

Great chance they are in the SC finals.

Ottawa went to the Conferene final and lost in seven games to Cup winners.

Bottom feeder this season.

Edmonton was the Vegas Oddsmakers Cup favorites at the start of the season and were embarrassingly bad this season.

Lots of surprises is the new norm.

[Roof-Daddy]

Whether it looked like it or not last summer, you should NOT be able to build a 51 win, 109 point conference finalist though expansion.

If you do, then regardless of what everybody thought at the time it happened, the rules were obviously too lenient.

Nothing can be done about it now (except piss and moan about it, and you bet I will) because they won't dial the rules back for Seattle, but it's total bull #### and I can't believe how many people are cool with it. But whatever each to their own I guess.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Whether it looked like it or not last summer, you should NOT be able to build a 51 win, 109 point conference finalist though expansion.

Why not?

[woob]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Whether it looked like it or not last summer, you should NOT be able to build a 51 win, 109 point conference finalist though expansion.

Honesty, says who? Do you think sports would be as engaging and entertaining as it is if every team who spent to the cap and made the best trades always won? That's why we have this Vegas story. That's why we had the 2004 run for the Flames. Because Sports, while sometimes VERY predictable with franchises that emerge based on generational talent/an incredible coach/excellent management, sometimes teams just defy the odds and put something wonderful together. Why piss and moan about it instead of just taking it in and enjoying the fact that you're watching a pretty amazing piece of sports history being written right in front of you.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Why not?

That's my opinion as a fan of an opposing team.

Every other team has to build through the draft. Why do they get to steal NHL players from other teams that are good enough when put together to challenge for a President's trophy and Stanley Cup?

The $500 million they paid doesn't mean a ####ing thing to me either, as a fan of the Calgary Flames who just watched them take one of three playoff spots in our division.

[woob]

I now have another reason to cheer for the Knights; to watch Roof-Daddy's head literally explode with seething rage. I expect it'll be much like his av picture but with more exploding.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Whether it looked like it or not last summer, you should NOT be able to build a 51 win, 109 point conference finalist though expansion.

If you do, then regardless of what everybody thought at the time it happened, the rules were obviously too lenient.

Nothing can be done about it now (except piss and moan about it, and you bet I will) because they won't dial the rules back for Seattle, but it's total bull #### and I can't believe how many people are cool with it. But whatever each to their own I guess.

People are cool with it because (a) it's not LV's fault; (b) the other gms could have avoided it but they protected the wrong players or made stupid deals for LV to leave an unprotected player alone; and (c) other gms could probably have acquired a lot of the good LV players if they'd made some moves at the deadline or in the off season. I mean, why, Florida? Why, Minnesota?

People are cool with it because who expected Karlsson to do what he's done? Or because they are happy for guys like Fleury or Engelland or Perron, who are extending their careers really successfully.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

The thing is, every single one of those approaches works if you get great goaltending, and most of them fall short if you don't. Fleury is having a season for the ages, and he was incredible from game 1 of the season. I don't know if anyone remembers, but that team was bad at the start of the year. They were totally disjointed, couldn't make a pass to save their lives, and spent entire periods in their own zone. But they started the year 8-1 on the back of some unreal goaltending, and that snowballed into some extremely confident play. If you add up Fleury's regular season and playoff stats this year, he's had a very similar year to Carey Price's Hart season a few years ago.

Fleury only played the first 4 games of the regular season, the missed the next 2 months due to injury. The Knights played well despite playing in front of their third or fourth string backups. I can't recall if Subban/Legace/Dansk were making ten-bell saves or not, but surely that was the team playing so well as a whole that it didn't matter who was in net.

[rage2]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If those teams were able to protect a few more players then they probably don't have to swing those deals in the first place.

That makes no sense. You’re telling me that if the teams were allowed to protect more players, that they would waste those protections on players that they wanted to get rid of?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by woob

I now have another reason to cheer for the Knights; to watch Roof-Daddy's head literally explode with seething rage. I expect it'll be much like his av picture but with more exploding.

lol

Nah, it's just extremely frustrating.

Must be nice to be a Vegas fan though. Don't have to suffer through years of mediocrity, just instant gratification. Instant Cup contender. Of course that makes it even worse, because no way a Vegas fan can or will appreciate a run like this as much as most of us Flames fans would if the Flames had just smashed out a 109 point season, then swept the Kings in round 1 and beat the Sharks in round 2 on their way to a CF appearance. Those teams have beat us up and stole our lunch money for decades now.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That's my opinion as a fan of an opposing team.

Every other team has to build through the draft. Why do they get to steal NHL players from other teams that are good enough when put together to challenge for a President's trophy and Stanley Cup?

The $500 million they paid doesn't mean a ####ing thing to me either, as a fan of the Calgary Flames who just watched them take one of three playoff spots in our division.

I understand that is your opinion, but why is it your opinion?

How do you go from having 0 assets to fielding an NHL and AHL team in a season without an expansion draft?

Why shouldn't a new NHL team have just as much potential to compete for a playoff spot/cup as any other team in the NHL?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

lol

Nah, it's just extremely frustrating.

Must be nice to be a Vegas fan though. Don't have to suffer through years of mediocrity, just instant gratification. Instant Cup contender. Of course that makes it even worse, because no way a Vegas fan can or will appreciate a run like this as much as most of us Flames fans would if the Flames had just smashed out a 109 point season, then swept the Kings in round 1 and beat the Sharks in round 2 on their way to a CF appearance. Those teams have beat us up and stole our lunch money for decades now.

Maybe we should be encouraging the Flames ownership to sell the team so we can get an expansion franchise in here and finally enjoy a successful season.

[zamler]

I respect Vegas and have no problem cheering for them. They are extremely well coached, work hard don't play doosh bag hockey. They embody pretty much everything I respect in a hockey club.